ok, its starting to go from minor inconvenience to major problem. Everytime I attempt to start KDE as non-root user (regular user) it loads fine right up to starting the sound driver, then it all goes wrong. first the sound gets jumpy then the box just freezes. no way to do anything except hard reset and pick up the pieces. Below is an excerpt from dmesg about a sound card quirk (could this be it?): ***************** Activating ISA DMA hang workarounds. isapnp: Scanning for PnP cards... isapnp: Calling quirk for 01:00 isapnp: SB audio device quirk - increasing port range isapnp: Card 'Creative ViBRA16C PnP' ****************** I am not sure if this has any bearing on the problem. I a at my whits end here. the only time KDE will work without fault is as root. HELP! Technomage Hawke -- I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered! My life is my own - No. 6