cool, I look forward to hearing from you. Tawn ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 5:22 PM Subject: PLUG-discuss digest, Vol 1 #1410 - 14 msgs > Send PLUG-discuss mailing list submissions to > plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > plug-discuss-request@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > You can reach the person managing the list at > plug-discuss-admin@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of PLUG-discuss digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. RE: a little security (Eric) > 2. Re: Netscxape (Derek Neighbors) > 3. Re: MS on every kids computer (Brian Cluff) > 4. Re: Netscxape (Dan Brown) > 5. RE: MS on every kids computer (Trent Shipley) > 6. Re: Netscxape (Carl Parrish) > 7. Re: MS on every kids computer (Alan Dayley) > 8. Re: a little security (der.hans) > 9. Re: MS on every kids computer (Brian Cluff) > 10. Re: Netscxape (Brian Cluff) > 11. Re: a little security (J.Francois) > 12. Re: MS on every kids computer (Alan Dayley) > 13. Win4Lin Experience? (Eric Richardson) > 14. Re: Win4Lin Experience? (John (EBo) David) > > --__--__-- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 10:50:46 -0800 > From: "Eric" > To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > Subject: RE: a little security > Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > > > >This looks to me like a good opportunity to teach those users how to > >use FreeSwan or vtun and set up a VPN. > > I concur > > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 13:28:16 -0500 (CDT) > From: Derek Neighbors > To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > Subject: Re: Netscxape > Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > Switch to mozilla or konq. If using KDE use konqueror other wise download > mozilla (http://www.mozilla.org) > > Netscape is non free software and besides it is absolute crap on > GNU/Linux. IMHO > > Derek > > On Fri, 7 Sep 2001, Roy J.Babin wrote: > > > I am a Newbie with Linux. I`m having trouble with Netscape, every so > > often when I enter an URL it will go blank, or will freeze, also will > > knock out my modem at times. Any suggestions would be greatly > > appreciated. > > Thank you. Using Netscape 4.7 > > > > ________________________________________________ > > See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your mail doesn't post to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail. > > > > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 3 > From: "Brian Cluff" > To: > Subject: Re: MS on every kids computer > Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 12:36:14 -0700 > Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > > I have a corporate affairs person at Sun who can help, but she'd like an > > idea of what kind of help we're looking for. Suggestions? > > I'm really not sure myself what to do, I don't really have much experience > in these matters. I do suspect that it might be to late to do anything > about this problem, but its definalty not too late to do something about the > source of the problem, being the uneducated people that ran this though the > system. We can at least try and let people know about the huge amount of > money that is being laid out that won't work very good. I would say any > system that would possibly require an OC48 going into a school would be a > bad system. Thats more bandwidth than ASU plus about 50+ schools they > provide bandwidth use all together. > > Anyway, someone needs to look like an ass over this one... > > Brian Cluff > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 13:14:21 -0700 > From: Dan Brown > To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > Subject: Re: Netscxape > Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > > --3Pql8miugIZX0722 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Disposition: inline > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > I've switched to Opera (http://www.opera.com). It's fast and doesn't > hog a bunch-o memory. > > Dan > > Roy J.Babin (babinr@earthlink.net) wrote: > > Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 11:13:56 -0700 > > From: "Roy J.Babin" > > Sender: plug-discuss-admin@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.16-22 i686) > > Subject: Netscxape > > Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > Lines: 13 > >=20 > > I am a Newbie with Linux. I`m having trouble with Netscape, every so > > often when I enter an URL it will go blank, or will freeze, also will > > knock out my modem at times. Any suggestions would be greatly > > appreciated. > > Thank you. Using Netscape 4.7 > >=20 > > ________________________________________________ > > See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your mail doesn't p= > ost to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail. > >=20 > > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > >=20 > > --3Pql8miugIZX0722 > Content-Type: application/pgp-signature > Content-Disposition: inline > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org > > iD8DBQE7mSqdPIfIXJRddQ0RAnlNAKDp4uAjm6DvtbDQ//SIZkx3FuN9ggCgspoO > v8pg4MNjrLq/8cI7ktNgEvE= > =0+uU > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > --3Pql8miugIZX0722-- > > --__--__-- > > Message: 5 > From: "Trent Shipley" > To: > Subject: RE: MS on every kids computer > Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 13:12:38 -0700 > Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > No matter how done the deal, we should still be able to insist on serving > free software. > > We could also swing dual boot *provided* that it doesn't increase network > admin costs, compromise security, etc. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: plug-discuss-admin@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > [mailto:plug-discuss-admin@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us]On Behalf Of Brian > > Cluff > > Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 12:36 PM > > To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > Subject: Re: MS on every kids computer > > > > > > > I have a corporate affairs person at Sun who can help, but she'd like an > > > idea of what kind of help we're looking for. Suggestions? > > > > I'm really not sure myself what to do, I don't really have much experience > > in these matters. I do suspect that it might be to late to do anything > > about this problem, but its definalty not too late to do > > something about the > > source of the problem, being the uneducated people that ran this > > though the > > system. We can at least try and let people know about the huge amount of > > money that is being laid out that won't work very good. I would say any > > system that would possibly require an OC48 going into a school would be a > > bad system. Thats more bandwidth than ASU plus about 50+ schools they > > provide bandwidth use all together. > > > > Anyway, someone needs to look like an ass over this one... > > > > Brian Cluff > > > > ________________________________________________ > > See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your mail > > doesn't post to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail. > > > > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 13:22:56 -0700 > From: Carl Parrish > To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > Subject: Re: Netscxape > Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > Netscape 6.1 is based off of the mozilla codebase and I've heard good > things about it. Since I run mozilla I can't actually say anything about > it myself. > > Carl P. > > Derek Neighbors wrote: > > >Switch to mozilla or konq. If using KDE use konqueror other wise download > >mozilla (http://www.mozilla.org) > > > >Netscape is non free software and besides it is absolute crap on > >GNU/Linux. IMHO > > > >Derek > > > >On Fri, 7 Sep 2001, Roy J.Babin wrote: > > > >>I am a Newbie with Linux. I`m having trouble with Netscape, every so > >>often when I enter an URL it will go blank, or will freeze, also will > >>knock out my modem at times. Any suggestions would be greatly > >>appreciated. > >>Thank you. Using Netscape 4.7 > >> > >>________________________________________________ > >>See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your mail doesn't post to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail. > >> > >>PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > >>http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > >> > > > >________________________________________________ > >See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your mail doesn't post to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail. > > > >PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > >http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 7 > Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 13:38:16 > To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > From: Alan Dayley > Subject: Re: MS on every kids computer > Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > > My ideas: > > Pick a school (public would be good, charter or private ok). Setup K12LTSP > (or similar) with low cost, but appropriate, hardware for the server and > clients. Document everything about the process to the penny and second of > time. Get the students and teachers using it. Document what they think of > it. Document maintenance time and costs. In other words, create a live > test case to compare with the ASP system and costs that our state is > creating. I understand there are some schools or districts that have > already pilotted the Arizona ASP program. Find out what they did and > duplicate it in open source as close as possible. > > 1. Sun or IBM or Intel or Motorola or RedHat or anyone else could donate > hardware and software for the test case system. Anything donated should > still be given market value for cost calculations. The corparate sponsors > (as it were) would be able to use this test case for marketing (good will, > community help, hard numbers for cost comparisons, etc.) so they should > want to do this. > > Sun could provide StarOffice distribution packages, training and > maintainance. The have thin client workstations (the Sunray line), maybe > some old ones even, that could be donated. I suppose these will work with > a Linux server instead of Solaris. > > 2. How many of those "no-tech-crats" in the SFB have ever used StarOffice > or KOffice or AbiWord? Or even know they exist? How about education > seminars or workshops to educate Arizona's education industry about open > source alternatives to M$? Corporate sponsors can provide materials, > capital or even locations to put something like this on. > > 3. Press releases from recognized corporate names like Sun (co-signed by > AZOTO, of course) can increase visibility of the problem. Something like: > "Sun's Arizona office expressed dismay at the deal. 'We could have given > them StarOffice for free.' said Joan Spokesperson. 'Instead they are > spending our children's education money making Microsoft richer.'" > > Because the ASP contract is already a done deal, protests would be good for > visibility of the issue but probably not effective for changing > implementation. What we need is real, documented and successful > installations and demonstrations to expose the alternative in a highly > visible way. Corporations with interest in the success of open source / > free software can help create new, or further current, (Sequoia?) > successful demo projects. > > That is how Sun (or any other corporate entity) can help. > > Alan > > At 08:37 AM 9/7/2001 -0700, you wrote: > >I have a corporate affairs person at Sun who can help, but she'd like an > >idea of what kind of help we're looking for. Suggestions? > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 8 > Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 13:53:50 -0700 (MST) > From: "der.hans" > To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > Subject: Re: a little security > Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > Am 07. Sep, 2001 schwäzte J.Francois so: > > > This looks to me like a good opportunity to teach those users how to > > use FreeSwan or vtun and set up a VPN. > > Looks like an opportunity for you to do a talk on them ;-). > > ciao, > > der.hans > -- > # der.hans@LuftHans.com home.pages.de/~lufthans/ www.DevelopOnline.com > # When you are tired of choosing the lesser of two evils, > # Vote Cthulhu for President! > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 9 > From: "Brian Cluff" > To: > Subject: Re: MS on every kids computer > Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 13:55:56 -0700 > Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > > Because the ASP contract is already a done deal, protests would be good > for > > visibility of the issue but probably not effective for changing > > implementation. What we need is real, documented and successful > > installations and demonstrations to expose the alternative in a highly > > visible way. Corporations with interest in the success of open source / > > free software can help create new, or further current, (Sequoia?) > > successful demo projects. > > Sequoia has been using Staroffice, gimp, Tux Typing, Blender... etc etc for > 2 year. It is/has been running on windows but all of those appications were > chosen not only for their quality, but for the fact they are multiplatform. > They will all someday run under linux, but the fact of the matter is that > other than a few govt entities that require that you submit forms in office > format there have been really no problems at all with running staroffice and > the other software on any of our campuses (Tempe, Showlow, Peoria, or any of > our Mesa campus'). > > Brian Cluff > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 10 > From: "Brian Cluff" > To: > Subject: Re: Netscxape > Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 14:01:52 -0700 > Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > > Netscape 6.1 is based off of the mozilla codebase and I've heard good > > things about it. Since I run mozilla I can't actually say anything about > > it myself. > > If you use mozilla anyway, you should give Galeon a try. It has a ton of > features the mozilla/netscape dont have and tends to be a little leaner and > faster as well. > > Brian Cluff > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 11 > Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 14:11:28 -0700 > From: "J.Francois" > To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > Subject: Re: a little security > Organization: MagusNet, Inc. Design * Develop * Integrate > Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > > --/9DWx/yDrRhgMJTb > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > Content-Disposition: inline > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > I would love to do a presentation on VPN setup. > > Any complaints if I do it with FreeBSD? :) > > Seriously, Let me see what docs I can scrounge up on doing > VPN setup between Linux and FreeBSD and I'll set something up. > > I needed a new project to work on anyway. > > On Fri, Sep 07, 2001 at 01:53:50PM -0700, der.hans wrote: > > Am 07. Sep, 2001 schw=E4zte J.Francois so: > >=20 > > > This looks to me like a good opportunity to teach those users how to > > > use FreeSwan or vtun and set up a VPN. > >=20 > > Looks like an opportunity for you to do a talk on them ;-). > >=20 > > ciao, > >=20 > > der.hans > > --=20 > > # der.hans@LuftHans.com home.pages.de/~lufthans/ www.DevelopOnline.com > > # When you are tired of choosing the lesser of two evils, > > # Vote Cthulhu for President! > >=20 > > ________________________________________________ > > See http://PLUG.phoenix.az.us/navigator-mail.shtml if your mail doesn't p= > ost to the list quickly and you use Netscape to write mail. > >=20 > > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > -- > Jean Francois - JLF Sends... > Once at a social gathering, Gladstone said to Disraeli, > "I predict, Sir, that you will die either by hanging or of some > vile disease". Disraeli replied, "That all depends, Sir, upon=20 > whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." > > > --/9DWx/yDrRhgMJTb > Content-Type: application/pgp-signature > Content-Disposition: inline > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Comment: No Good Deed Goes Unpunished > > iD8DBQE7mTgAW0Cv9UK+FaoRAnsOAJ4nzMGyHC2/J9thgJ6wr8wIfrfk4ACfWOwt > VO+7RkdYkpKKyToTHOulUrs= > =YufB > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > --/9DWx/yDrRhgMJTb-- > > --__--__-- > > Message: 12 > Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 14:15:11 > To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > From: Alan Dayley > Subject: Re: MS on every kids computer > Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > > Brian, > > I know you have nothing else to do... ;^) > > Write a white paper on Sequoia's IT stuff. Why did you choose it? Was it > hard to implement? Infrastructure details, maintainance costs, admin > costs, user reactions, parent's reactions, estimated savings, etc. > > Really, a good white paper like that is alot of work, but what a thing to > drop in a (parent/teacher/principal/board member/administator/SFB > member/VOTER/TAXPAYER)'s lap! > > I am sure you could get people to help write it. > > Alan > > At 01:55 PM 9/7/2001 -0700, you wrote: > >Sequoia has been using Staroffice, gimp, Tux Typing, Blender... etc etc for > >2 year. It is/has been running on windows but all of those appications were > >chosen not only for their quality, but for the fact they are multiplatform. > >They will all someday run under linux, but the fact of the matter is that > >other than a few govt entities that require that you submit forms in office > >format there have been really no problems at all with running staroffice and > >the other software on any of our campuses (Tempe, Showlow, Peoria, or any of > >our Mesa campus'). > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 13 > Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 16:07:41 -0700 > From: Eric Richardson > Organization: MilagroSoft Inc. > To: plug > Subject: Win4Lin Experience? > Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > Hi, > > I saw a thread about Win4Lin on the Debian list and thought people might > be interested. It seems to be a very good alternative to dual boot and > reasonable in price. Buying a piece of proprietary software to run M$ > doesn't seem like a contradiction so perhaps more people could get to > use Linux. > > If anybody has any experience with this here are a couple of questions. > > 1. It seems that it may want to replace the kernel, do they add their > own kernel module compiled in or change the Linux kernel or provide a > kernel module? > > 2. Do they have a Debian installer so the standard package management > tools can be used. > > In other comments appreciated. Here is the url for the thread and > company respectively. > > http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2001/debian-user-200109/msg00104.html > http://www.netraverse.com/products/win4lin30/ > > Eric > > --__--__-- > > Message: 14 > Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 16:29:55 -0700 > From: "John (EBo) David" > Subject: Re: Win4Lin Experience? > To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > Reply-To: plug-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > > > If I am following the discussion correctly, there is also a product > called VMWare. I am able to run most windows software in a Windows, > window without dual booting. I have had some problems with it, but they > are all related to running it on a dual processor system and the 2.4 > kernal. I just got notice though that they got the 2.4.* problems > solved... > > EBo -- > > > --__--__-- > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > End of PLUG-discuss Digest >