I wrote:
> > Having the Windows desktop standardized by megalomaniacs
> > has had its benefit:  Bill made the trains run on time.

"John (EBo) David" replied:
> no... they do not run on time, they just have an agreed
> upon published schedule.  When they run of the rail and
> crash, I would not call that "run[ning] on time."

I haven't found Linux DESKTOP applications as stable as the
standard M$ applications, though I do feel much better in
an environment where I *CAN* revert to a sound and
versatile command-line alternative.

The fact is, I aced out on a test for MS Access proficiency
although I had NEVER used Access.  Why?  Because I know the
conventions of the M$ desktop.  So I just knew "instinctively"
what to do.

And the copy/paste capability is one of the biggest advantages
of a windowing environment, and the capability implemented in
X is not only unfamiliar to most people, but I think it is
also inferior due to its haste to change the clipboard each
time something is highlighted.  Being able to highlight the
destination string for replacement is a major advantage.
And use of separate clipboards for various applications is
simply a broken behavior.

> I am not paid for the work I do.  I just do it.

EBo, I had no intention to insult anybody!  There is no
need to "excuse" Free Software developers for not doing
"better".  Of course Bill has an advantage.  Of course
Linux is still deciding how to go, and it's a loose-knit
group trying to converge on some sort of conventions.

But I'm saying ONE set of conventions is already established
that needs to be accommodated, and at the SYSTEM level
(in X, that is), not independently by different products.
A set of options need to be implemented in X so that the
users coming from Macs and Windows don't have to re-learn
the basics to suit X's traditions.

I was responding to the article about Linux users going
back to M$.  That author expressed the intention to come
back when Linux was ready.  I expressed the intention to
continue trying.

The point is, we must NOT excuse the Linux desktop for the
fragmented and somewhat impenetrable face it presents to
a new user who has been conditioned by a Mac/Windows
background -- not if we are determined that Linux should
become a really serious contender on the desktop.

I wrote:
> > I can't find Konqueror, where is it?

EBo's reply: 
> Assuming that KDE is installed, try konqueror.
> I know, the lower casedness got me the first time too.

On the command line, I know about find -ni; but we were
looking on the KDE menu.  I don't think it's there,
and I'll swear I asked for it during the install.

I am more at home on Linux than on Windows.  But it is
hard for me to tell a desktop user how to use it, while
it's easy for me to do that with Windows.

Here's an exercise for you (one that was imposed on me
this week):  help a Windows user step through some
operations, such as installing a new program, without
EVER asking them to type a shell command.  It was a
sobering experience, and it reinforced the opinions
I'm expressing here.

Note that my friend is a highly experienced systems
engineer who is not in the slightest afraid of the
command line, has a longstanding and healthy dislike
for Microsoft, and is acutely aware of the need to
support Free Software; but he was there to test the
desktop, and the desktop fell flat on its face.

Vic