o Point number one, re: list etiquette in general: One thing I have learned from being on the Net since the dawn of email's popularity is that list etiquette discussions recur on every list I have ever been in, even the good ones. They take up bandwidth, and do absolutely no good. No matter how much a person soapboxes about his personal hot points, citing everything from RFCs and the Hacker's Dictionary to the Bible to make their points, while some few may learn a thing or two and revise a habit now and then, in the end most do not. Shortly after the thread dies down, the list is joined by more of the unenlightened who will quote entire digests and bottom-post "me too", send HTML and attachments (unless it's outright banned and enforced), send paragraph-length single lines, include foreign character codes, ignore punctuation, misspell three-letter words, and compose text as though human speech is their second language, until someone gets sufficiently irritated to start the cycle once again. I finally learned about five years ago not to read messages that I don't like to *look* at. Period. That alone cut my load about 90%, especially where I used to work. Meanwhile, I strive to present the best example I can in my own posts, because I'd rather have people imitate what I do than what I say. Sometimes people even write me offlist and ask me how I do such-and-such. (Particularly proper citation.) o Point number two, re: top-posts versus bottom-posts I had to reflect to even know what that means, but finally figured out it refers to the practice of quoting a whole message and adding your own content at the top or bottom respectively. If I misunderstand, someone please correct me. When responding to a message I always, always, *always* quote the message, indent it with citation strings, and then intersperse my own comments. And I always, always, *always* delete the words that are irrelevant, both before and afterward, often inserting ellipses before and/or afterward. This way I can break a line precisely at the most effective word, so there is no guesswork as to what points on which I am commenting. One simple reason so few do this is that they either use inferior editing systems, are keyboard challenged, or simply have never taken the time to learn how to use the power built into the tools they have available. I've observed this is most often true of people who come to Linux/Unix from a Windows point and drool environment where they are provided by default with software that allows them to insert attachments of the latest Steven Spielberg movie in DVD format, but don't provide them with some of the most fundamental editing capabilities, such as the ability to transpose letters, sentences, or words in a keystroke, or to re-fill paragraphs after deleting or adding text. Some things will never change. The best we can do is just get over it, and try not to be part of the problem. Respectfully, -- Lynn David Newton Phoenix, AZ