On Thu, 2004-01-08 at 08:43, Karl Bielefeldt wrote:
> > Your suggestion to Victor to switch to SuSE 9.0 helps him how? 
> 
> I think that choosing the right distro is a very important and often
> overlooked part of learning Linux.  My first experience with Linux was
> with Redhat and it was terrible.  Then a year and a half later or so a
> friend (MCSE no less) gave me the CDs to a few other distributions and I
> ended up trying Mandrake and loved it because everything worked
> perfectly on the first try.  I thought that maybe the Redhat experience
> had improved as well so I gave it another shot, still no go.  Years
> later after happily running Mandrake, then linuxfromscratch, then gentoo
> I gave Redhat another shot for use on my laptop, and it was still not
> the distro for me.
> 
> Now, I'm not trying to knock Redhat here.  To each his own.  But I know
> I personally wouldn't be using and loving Linux if Redhat was the only
> thing out there.  I also know I'm not alone in that sentiment.
> 
> It's like someone shopping for a family vehicle, getting a motorcycle
> because that's the only brand he has heard of, and then finding that it
> doesn't meet his needs when he tries to take the family out for a spin. 
> He really needs a minivan, but a motorcycle is well suited for his
> mechanic, who makes all sorts of modifications so the whole family can
> fit on the bike.  Pretty soon he goes back to the Microsoft public
> transportation system.
> 
> Once someone has settled on a distribution, I'm all for supporting them
> with whatever issues they have, but encouraging them to "shop around"
> may end up being the best advice we can give someone starting out.
---
you are confusing anecdotal feedback as something which truly imparts
value. Consider a Linux newbie... installs distro 1 can't get hardware a
and hardware b working properly. He says...I don't think Linux is ready
for desktop use...my hardware doesn't work. In your case, Mandrake
worked with your hardware but I assure you that if it were a universal
benefit, everyone using Linux on the desktop would be there.

Up chimes anecdotal satisfied user with distro 2 - says, I had problems
with distro 1 and was happier with distro 2. Convinces Linux newbie to
wipe out first install and install distro 2 which has different user
interface for setup and configuration - maybe hardware a and b work but
he has new problems (as far as I can tell, each distro has strengths and
weaknesses). So you have convinced him to trade one set of problems for
another. This doesn't impart value - only confusion.

This isn't about Red Hat or SuSE or Debian or whatever. This is about
the fact that there are many different ways to deliver the Linux package
and though the engines are typically the same, the interior and exterior
appearances are different.

It seems clear to me that - as Derek pointed out recently, that a User
Linux - probably the project shepherded by Bruce Perens is likely to be
the overarching favorite for desktop use in the future as it is simply
too difficult to be both the server and desktop operating system of
choice - ala SuSE / Red Hat. 

Also it seems that people start using Linux for a lot of different
reasons and their needs and expectations aren't considered when this
'use my distro' mentality gets tossed their way. In my case, I wanted to
use Linux as small business server and I think Red Hat excels for that
use and judging by the response in the commercial market, I am not
alone. It was using the Red Hat system as a desktop user that has
allowed me to become far more intimate with the inner workings. In fact,
after 5 years of Linux, mostly, but not exclusively Red Hat, I figure I
understand enough to be able to tell the difference on another system
without feeling lost because file locations and commands might be
different.

As for your motor vehicle analogy - I missed the connection. We are
talking about a newbie asking for help with problems. If you feel that
telling newbie to wipe out Red Hat and install Mandrake is an adequate
answer than so be it. We know that Richard felt the same about SuSE and
I assure you that there will be others who feel the same about Gentoo,
Debian etc. - It all just adds to a newbie's confusion with absolutely
no certainty that it will solve his problem.

Craig