Interesting debate. My 2-centavos: My first experience with RH was RH7.2 that came with a Dell server I bought. I installed it and signed up with RHN. What I got was a constant stream of update notices along with suggestions that I "upgrade" my service agreement, as if I had nothing better to do than install patches and read security alerts all day long. To me this was not helpful. If they periodically offered "service packs" similar to what those evil guys at Microsoft do, that automatically update *everything* that needs updating, that would be worth a few bucks. Contrary to popular myth, I had some fairly vexing stability problems as well. I paid full price for the RH8.0 boxed set when it came out, only to find from this very community that RH tends to do a sloppy job on major releases, and they need a lot of patches, just what I was hoping to avoid. I never installed it. Now I'm using Mandrake 9.2 and *much* happier with it so far. But distro is not religion to me, so I don't care to debate that. To me, the big reason for using Linux at all, in fact for using a PC, is the ability to *do-it-myself* if I choose. If a software package is so complicated that it is not practical to do it myself, that is no less confining than a conventional license and closed source, and as far as I am concerned, no different. So if RH wants to make their customers dependent on them I have no problem with that. After all, it is the American way. But let's call a spade a spade (no racial slur intended), and not masquerade as some kind of New-Age benefactor of Open Source Enlightenment. Maybe at one time RH was that, but you have to sign a deal with the Devil to go public, and they did. -- Phil Mattison Ohmikron Corp. 480-722-9595 ext.1 602-820-9452 Mobile