> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Alan Dayley > To: Main PLUG discussion list > Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 23:09:43 -0700 > Subject: Re: Geek/Tech/Entrepreneur Stuff to do in PHX > Joshua, > > I put all your replies together in one long document and reread them. > I am still confused a bit.  Enlightenment via email rarely occurs. > However, I really want to understand your position in this discussion. >  Let me summarize what I understand from your replies. > > ---[Start my paraphasing of your comments]--- > > - There is a small group or groups of people who keep spinning off > communities using tired marketing techniques.  This results in blogs > but not true communities. > > - Some of these people cannot deal with existing structure and the > efforts of the past. > > - These weak attempts do not articulate goals or purpose well, if at all. > > - We must honestly look at criticism to learn and improve. > > - These weak people need to address the efforts of the past and > provide suggestions on how they can be improved upon. > > - Getting political support will provide legitimacy to their efforts. > > - Phoenix will attract technology businesses because of the relative > low cost and this will help improve things. > > - You have first hand experiences of weak, marketing fronted, > community building efforts. > > - Many 'entrepreneurs' have grand ideas but get nowhere with them > because they are not real businesses. > > - People at a co-working location or coffee shop will not help you > with your business unless you pay them. > > - Most people at co-working started their one person business after > being laid-off and are not serious about it.  They are really just > looking for the next full time gig.  This will get in your way if you > have real business work to do. > > - We must look truthfully at this issue if we are to make progress. > > - There are no serious incubators and entrepreneurial meetups in > Phoenix.  No announcements on VC funding of companies so it's not > really entrepreneurial growth. > > ---[End my paraphrasing of your comments]--- > > I see validity in every one of these comments.  I also think many of > them can be balanced by the other point of view.  I still have > questions, if I may ask, before I state too much of my own thinking. > I want to learn more about your thinking. > > 1. What does "deal with existing structure" mean?  This confuses me, > not know what structure you are talking about. > > 2. To what efforts of the past are you referring?  I want to > understand the size and nature of efforts to creating a community that > you feel were legitimate but perhaps did not work as planned. > > 3. What political support is needed?  You mean government funding of > events or startups or just verbal support or what? > > 4. Why is it wrong or a problem for someone who is laid-off to have > grand ideas, talk about them and they never come to be? > > 5. Is it not conceivable that people might help each other in business > efforts?  Isn't strengthening and creating such a culture a good idea > or should such a goal not be pursued because it is not practically > possible? > > Alan > > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:20 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: >> another great one: >> >> "OK, my question stands. Where are the incubators, the "bootstrap" >> seminars, the serious entrepreneurial meetups in Phoenix??? (crickets >> chirping). Phoenix just ain't happening as a serious place where >> serious people are doing serious things. No one wants it badly enough >> here. This paper should be having at least one article a week on a new >> startup and the VC firm who funded it. Helloooo????? is anybody out >> there...." >> >> a better way to phrase this: we need to stop pretending these >> whimsical efforts churned out by local self-employed marketing experts >> are sufficient.  They are not.  We should be asking the hard >> questions, not playing games. >> >> -jmz >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:04 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: >>>  another point, honestly reading through some of the criticisms on >>> azcentral and being of the cafe dwelling creed myself, I'd have to say >>> that many of those points are accurate.  I've heard lots of >>> 'entrepreneurs' with big ideas around here who never get anywhere with >>> them.  Sorry, but a word press template doesn't make you an >>> entrepreneur. >>> >>>  "These are the same people you see at Starbucks, Boarders or any >>> other wi-fi hot spot, they are not entrepreneurs they are attention >>> (inappropriate term)." >>> >>>  "Many of the Co-Worker location founders tout other people to >>> collaborate with and who can "compensate for your deficiencies". Do >>> you really believe someone that you are not paying as an employee is >>> going to somehow compensate for your deficiencies and make your >>> business better? That kind of help doesn't come without a price." >>> >>>  oh so true... >>> >>>  "You are more likely to get a bunch of people chatting to you over >>> your "work" so you wont be concentrating as you should to focus on >>> your business. Most of these people started businesses after being >>> laid off. They are searching for a new job and they aren't really >>> serious about their "businesses" so how do you expect them to give you >>> valuable, serious advice. Are these the kind of people you need to >>> compensate for your deficiencies? A bunch of people half-as running >>> their "business" while searching for a real job and bothering you with >>> their expertise that got them laid off in the first place." >>> >>>  oh so so true... >>> >>>  I would be willing to bet the commenter above is an tried and true >>> successful entrepreneur.  Perhaps the reason I am so skeptical is >>> because I know these kind of people so well. >>> >>>  sorry I really wish I could be more supportive... but :  truth is >>> the foundation of progress. >>> >>>  -jmz >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 3:28 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: >>>>  Alan, >>>> >>>>    Wish I had time to respond to all these points right now, not sure >>>> you read me the way I would prefer however.  Its not so grave a >>>> warning, just getting the word out on my first hand experiences.  Im >>>> just one of many- but hopefully an impartial observer and someone >>>> genuinely concerned for AZ. >>>> >>>>  all the best, jmz >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 3:12 PM, Alan Dayley wrote: >>>>> Josh, >>>>> >>>>> I feel warned.  And I don't understand the reason for such a strong warning. >>>>> >>>>> There are people in every industry, government or community who wish >>>>> to fleece their "community" for their own profit instead of mutual >>>>> benefit.  The trick is to find the positive people and ignore the >>>>> rest.  Apply the same filter with every event, group or blogger in the >>>>> lists and links I provided.  I don't expect bloggers or techies to be >>>>> any different, as if being techie makes one a saint. >>>>> >>>>> Some of those bloggers are purely commercial or completely neglected, >>>>> I'm sure.  Some of the groups or events or sites listed are lousy, >>>>> boring or poor marketing excuses to sell something.  Some are not out >>>>> to create community but to build a "kingdom" for their own benefit. >>>>> They are the duds. >>>>> >>>>> Let's look at a few positives: >>>>> >>>>> - Read the Gangplank Manifesto on their home page at >>>>> http://gangplankhq.com.  That looks like a great articulation of their >>>>> goals and purpose.  Ones I strongly support! >>>>> -- Read how the manifesto came to be on Derek's blog at >>>>> http://derekneighbors.com/2009/07/collaborative-writing-or-how-the-gangplank-manifesto-was-written/ >>>>> >>>>> - Gangplank has hosted or is hosting: >>>>> -- MobiFest - a day long conference on developing for phones like >>>>> iPhone or Android >>>>> -- Gangplank Jr. - a 2-3 hour Saturday event for kids 5-15 to learn >>>>> programming concepts >>>>> -- Wordpress training classes for minimal cost or no-cost for non-profit orgs >>>>> -- Laid Off Camp - a day long conference on job searching and entreprenuership >>>>> -- Barcamp Pheonix - a day long conference on software development >>>>> -- TEDx night - Watch ted.com videos and discuss them >>>>> -- OpenPhoenix - a night of open mic music and entertainment >>>>> >>>>> - The last http://desertcodecamp.com/ was held on June 13th and nearly >>>>> filled DeVry's Phoenix campus with developers talking about code or >>>>> making code.  Free lunch of pizza and sub sandwiches was provided too. >>>>>  Put together by volunteers. >>>>> >>>>> - If you're into Microsoft based development tech, the people who >>>>> maintain the http://azgroups.com site do an annual all-day event at >>>>> venues like the Orphium Theater and at no cost to attendees.  Fine, >>>>> it's marketing for MS but it's put on by volunteers here in the valley >>>>> and a great way for people to learn about things that improve their >>>>> career skills. >>>>> (http://www.componentart.com/BLOGS/milos/archive/2009/06/02/scott-guthrie-event-2009-phoenix-az.aspx) >>>>> >>>>> - The local Ruby On Rails group has monthly meetings with around 30 >>>>> regularly in attendance. >>>>> >>>>> - The Java group is also well attended every month. >>>>> >>>>> - The third http://podcampaz.com/ is coming up in November, put on by >>>>> voluteers at no cost (donation requested) to attendees.  Had about 350 >>>>> people attend last year (if I recall) for two days of conference. >>>>> >>>>> - The http://azentrepreneurship.com/ conference will be in November >>>>> for the forth year.  This one costs $100+ but should be as well >>>>> attended as last year with 200+ people.  Funded and organized in part >>>>> by a local venture capital group. >>>>> >>>>> - The first http://ignitephoenix.com event was held a year ago with a >>>>> little over 100 in attendance and has grown to fill the 600 seat >>>>> Theather at Tempe Center for the Arts back in June.  The connections >>>>> made there live well past the event. >>>>> -- Oh, a city council member and the mayor of Tempe spoke this last >>>>> time, though he was a bit silly trying to be Tempe exclusive.  That >>>>> seems to be at least verbal political support. >>>>> >>>>> - The second ABLEConf on FS/OSS is being planned for October and >>>>> should be better than last year. (Go Hans and team!) >>>>> >>>>> I'm not going to go on, though I could point out several purely social >>>>> events like http://phoenixfridaynights.com/, it's east and west valley >>>>> analogs, East Valley Thursday Morning breakfasts, Tempe Geeks Lunch, >>>>> South Valley Geek Meet and Eat and Gangplank's Brown Gag lunch >>>>> presentations every Wednesday. >>>>> >>>>> Now, having said all of that "giddy blind optimism," I'd like to >>>>> understand how the above does not address the efforts of the past or >>>>> provide improvement over past efforts.  What are the real needs of the >>>>> community, if not some of the above?  What would you suggest?  How can >>>>> PLUG be a part of it? >>>>> >>>>> Alan >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 1:34 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: >>>>>>  Alan, >>>>>> >>>>>>    while I appreciate your post, and anyone who is making a sincere >>>>>> effort to build community in Phoenix... be warned.  There are some >>>>>> small groups who periodically spawn off new 'communities' every month >>>>>> or so.  Look closely and you see the same few people with reused >>>>>> marketing recipes.  Lots of blog and not too much community I'm >>>>>> afraid.  Their efforts amount to some simple branding and putting up a >>>>>> blog.  While these things are not really particularily offensive to >>>>>> me, they do somewhat detract from interest in the real needs of the >>>>>> community here.  Some of these people are just outright idiotic and >>>>>> cannot deal with existing structure and refuse to accept the history >>>>>> of efforts in the past.  They lack any articulation of their goals and >>>>>> purpose.  Often times they have trouble organizing even small groups >>>>>> of 2 or 3.  Dont forget we've had a tech incubator here.  Lets not >>>>>> smack down sincere criticism in favor of giddy blind optimism, >>>>>> remember you can't improve without criticism.  I would take these >>>>>> people much more seriously if they addressed the efforts of the past >>>>>> and perhaps suggested how they are going to improve on them, or >>>>>> perhaps indicate what has changed that will make them a success. >>>>>> Maybe seeking real political support would gain some legitimacy. >>>>>> >>>>>>    on the positive side, I think Phoenix will attract a lot of >>>>>> technology business due to its relative low cost and no doubt you will >>>>>> start to see community infrastructure grow.  We are seeing some real >>>>>> urban development happening in Phx metro which has me very excited.  I >>>>>> think when the macroeconomic problems are sorted out we will see >>>>>> downtown Phx bloom.  Im hoping that the average Arizonan gets involved >>>>>> in the political process and make sure that the corruption stays out >>>>>> of city and state politics.  Coming from NY, Im recognizing a lot of >>>>>> positive development trends in Phx metro. >>>>>> >>>>>>  -jmz >>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us >>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>> >>>> >>> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> > please trim posts. In digest form, it because a lot bulk fiber that is hard digest all at once. :) Mike --------------------------------------------------- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss