I'm old school and would suggest learning plain old C. Then you can branch out to other languages. ------------------------ Keith Smith --- On Sat, 2/20/10, Joshua Zeidner wrote: > From: Joshua Zeidner > Subject: Re: > To: "Main PLUG discussion list" > Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 7:34 PM > On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 7:27 PM, > Michael Havens > wrote: > > website development seems like the only thing I would > want to do so Ruby it > > is! > > >    and that is the typical story with Ruby > developers...  ;) > >   -jmz > > > > Unfortunately, it isn't on my Ubuntuu install. When  > I tried to start it > > it told me to apt-get it. No internet connection. > > > > On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 7:12 PM, Joseph Sinclair > > > wrote: > >> > >> Let's not devolve into a favorite language war. >  There are situations > >> where Python is a great language choice, and > situations where it's terrible. > >> Every language choice comes down to what you want > to accomplish. > >>  Some languages are good for rapid development of > websites (Ruby, PHP, > >> etc...). > >>  Some languages are good for systems management > scripts (Python, Perl, > >> etc...). > >>  Some languages are good for developing large web > systems intended to be > >> maintained for years (Java, others). > >>  Some languages are good for developing packaged > COTS software (C++, Java, > >> etc...). > >>  Some languages are good for system software and > embedded devices (C, C++, > >> etc...). > >>  Many languages are most useful in very specific > niches (Forth, Lisp, ADA, > >> XSLT, LOLCode, Objective-C, etc...) > >> > >> Most languages have multiple areas where they work > well, and multiple > >> areas where they're not so good. > >> What exactly you want to accomplish in your > software development should > >> drive the language choice, although it rarely > does. > >> > >> No one particular language is the best choice for > learning how to write > >> software; each type of software development will > drive a different choice of > >> the best "first" language to learn. > >> > >> Mike, you need to specify your goal more precisely > in order for the > >> community here to give you a useful recommendation > that will help you best > >> accomplish that goal. > >> > >> ==Joseph++ > >> > >> Kevin Fries wrote: > >> > Wow, now I know why it is so hard to hire > people that are competent! > >> >  Python is fun, not right, but fun... Thats > your argument?  If you want to > >> > know why we refuse to hire Python programmers > at our company, I can give you > >> > real facts on why you should not use that > language as a place to learn... > >> > Not opinions. > >> > > >> > Kevin > >> > > >> > Sent from my Nokia phone > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: Joshua Zeidner > >> > Sent:  02/20/2010 4:17:23 PM > >> > Subject:  Re: > >> > > >> > On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 4:13 PM, Joshua > Zeidner > >> > wrote: > >> >>  Seems like we have a lot of opinions > here.  Here is a paper from ACM > >> >> on the use of Python in for teaching > programming. > >> >> > >> >>    http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=114017 > >> > > >> >   sorry wrong link: > >> >  http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1140123.1140177 > >> > > >> >        -jmz > >> > > >> >>  -jmz > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 4:01 PM, Austin > William Wright > >> >> > wrote: > >> >>> Alan Dayley wrote: > >> >>>> Python. > >> >>>> > >> >>> Absolutely NOT PYTHON. It breaks the > first two rules of programming, > >> >>> the > >> >>> assignment operator (=) assigns > values to a variable, and always > >> >>> ignore > >> >>> whitespace. Well my first two rules, > at least. Plus it sucks at > >> >>> consistent use of object-oriented > programming. > >> >>> > >> >>> If you *really* need a > general-purpose programming language, look at > >> >>> Ruby, it's slightly more well > behaved. Slightly. I would recommend > >> >>> Javascript, it's a major programming > language, and you can run it in > >> >>> your web browser with literally > nothing to install. Plus Javascript is > >> >>> closely related to XML and HTML, > while not programming languages, are > >> >>> markup languages (a way of storing > data) that is becoming very > >> >>> important > >> >>> to know for many things. Though > designed for the web, many of these > >> >>> things are finding themselves become > part of everyday computing, > >> >>> especially XML. For these things, http://www.w3schools.com/ is > >> >>> popular. > >> >>> > >> >>> Any scripting language might be a > good start at learning about > >> >>> if/then/else logic, but none of these > languages are going to teach how > >> >>> computers really *process* or *store* > information on the inside (how > >> >>> the > >> >>> CPU executes the program or how > variables are stored in memory), or > >> >>> for > >> >>> that matter write an actual > interactive computer program, you will > >> >>> need > >> >>> a real language like C or C++. After > learning something like > >> >>> Javascript > >> >>> you will find C surprisingly limited > in functionality if you try and > >> >>> do > >> >>> things the same way, especially > variable-length variables like strings > >> >>> and arrays. Keep that fact in the > back of your head for when, if, you > >> >>> attempt C/C++. > >> >>> > >> >>> Whatever you do, Google " > tutorial" should bring up something good. > >> >>> In the way of books, however, you > can't miss ones from O'Reilly ( > >> >>> http://oreilly.com/ ), they are jade/teal > and have a random animal on > >> >>> the cover. > >> >>> > >> >>> Austin Wright. > >> >>> > --------------------------------------------------- > >> >>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > >> >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to > change your mail settings: > >> >>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > >> >>> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> http://home.joshuazeidner.com/ > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > --------------------------------------------------- > >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail > settings: > >> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > > > > > > -- > > :-)~MIKE~(-: > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail > settings: > > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > > > > -- > http://home.joshuazeidner.com/ > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail > settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > --------------------------------------------------- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss