Who's to blame indeed... We are - our political class. On 2023-06-07 18:25, Michael Butash via PLUG-discuss wrote: >> QUESTION? >> >> I understand TSMC produces the most chips in the world, and is > located >> in Taiwan . Where did they get that technology and who paid for > that > > technology? > > Being old enough to be there and experience the start of > mass-production of copy/duplicate/counterfeit goods in the late 70's > and 80's, I'd say it all started with "Made in Taiwan" goods. > > From my perspective from childhood on, it was in the form of knock-off > toys, brand name fashions, CD's, tools, you name it, it was everywhere > new and used, and it was all "Made in Taiwan". Not sure if it was them > simply getting the impetus to clone our stuff, or someone > surreptitiously asking them to do so to undercut established brands > from here. Either way, it set off the flood into our domestic markets > for crapgadgets. > > Taiwan goods were always just a bit crappier, sort of mislabled, would > always break early if not out of box, would never fit quite right, but > hey it was a fraction of the price! In my teens my focus was tools > growing up to be a mechanic, and buying second-hand goods would always > see a direct clone of a $100 "Snap-On" brand high-end wrench as a $5 > "Stack-On" clone from Taiwan. Harbor Freight made a name and business > selling knock-off American "Chicago Pneumatic" tools as "Central > Pneumatic" (many others too), all Made in Taiwan (now China), and > still does. > > In the 80's, US orgs began asking Taiwan to actually make these things > for us including eventually semiconductors for us, even giving them > the plans, when they already had the clone game down pimp tight. > That's about the time China took over and now frowns upon mentioning > Taiwan as anything other than China, thus generically everything is > "Made in China" since then. > > As we sent our engineering designs there to get bargains in > production, and taught them how to make our things including the > machinery. Eventually those copies as part of reverse engineering > became prototypes, continued to be made and improved on, if not in > quality, in profit margins to make them cheaper, even eventually > adapting into new products. As it was always explained to me, it > starts with them making "one for me, then one for themselves", and > later "one for me, two for themselves", ad nauseam. > > Next thing you know you have Coach purses rolling out of the same > factory as the Couch purses that look the same sold in swap meets and > alleyways around the world, barely indistinguishable except the > receipt. Even worse now, you get things like selling counterfeit > Cisco switches to everything from government to education [1] using > modchips to bypass security on the clone [2], or buying pretty much > anything of Amazon is likely a counterfeit clone of a clone of a > clone. > > Who's to blame indeed... > > -mb > > On Wed, Jun 7, 2023 at 3:29 PM Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss > wrote: > >> On 2023-06-07 13:59, James Mcphee via PLUG-discuss wrote: >>> Generally, if I hear it from cable news, there's a good chance >> it's >>> just someone drumming up support for something. In this case, >> we'll >>> probably hear about some kind of H1B system to make sure the new >> fabs >>> get all the people they need, etc. Same deal as when I was >> working at >>> a company that got bought by Dell, and they failed to retain most >> of >>> the new employees because they didn't have a structure that worked >>> with professionals. Suddenly you saw Michael Dell doing an >> interview >>> on CNBC about the need to extend H1B 'cause they aren't getting >> enough >>> workers. At the very least, there's plenty of incentive to drive >> down >>> labor costs. And with the halts for new housing going out, there >> is a >>> LOT of incentive to manipulate the market. >>> >>> Am I being paranoid? I probably need to touch more grass. >> >> Are you getting too paranoid? Maybe not. I quit following the news >> >> because I think most are fearmongering and not talking and working >> on >> the real problems. >> >> I personally do not like the H1B visas because I do not think they >> are >> necessary. If there is really a shortage of tech workers then why is >> >> there not a few major tech universities? Why does Gates exploit the >> H1B >> and not create a really great tech university? And why do the >> politicians allow all of this? >> >> We have all we need right here in our 50 states, so why do we not do >> >> things that benefit ourselves and possibly others? >> >> These people like Michael Dell, Bill Gates, etc have forgotten where >> >> they came from. >> >> QUESTION? >> >> I understand TSMC produces the most chips in the world, and is >> located >> in Taiwan . Where did they get that technology and who paid for >> that >> technology? >> >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 7, 2023 at 1:15 PM Jim via PLUG-discuss >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Don't believe everything you read on the internet. I've read >> that >>>> Abraham Lincoln blames Donald Trump for giving the gun to John >>>> Wilkes Booth. >>>> >>>> On 6/6/23 17:45, Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss wrote: >>>>> Chip maker TSMC is moving to chandler and I have read they are a >>>>> sweatshop.... >>>>> >>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>> >>> -- >>> James McPhee >>> jmcphe@gmail.com >>> --------------------------------------------------- >>> PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > Links: > ------ > [1] > https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/ceo-guilty-of-selling-counterfeit-cisco-devices-to-military-govt-orgs/ > [2] > https://hackaday.com/2023/02/01/counterfeit-cisco-hardware-bypasses-security-checks-with-modchips/ > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --------------------------------------------------- PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss