Ryan Petris your on a roll. I wholeheartedly agree. On 2024-04-25 13:45, Ryan Petris via PLUG-discuss wrote: > If you're asking whether the workers got their fair share of building > a bridge 100 years ago given that it's stood for 100 years and that > it's gotten a lot of use, I'd say that it really doesn't matter. The > workers were paid a fair wage for their labor, regardless of what the > finished product was. > > Lets say that I was a scientist and I was paid $1 million per year for > 10 years to find a cure for cancer, and I ended up finding one. The > cure would be worth billions because it would be universally needed > everywhere, and if you were the only person/company that had it then > it would be worth whatever you wanted to charge for it. Should I as > the scientist complain that I only got $10 million out of the deal > when it's worth billions, trillions even? > > If you say yes, well you're not really accounting for the risk vs > reward. Had I as the scientist not found a cure, I'd still have made > $10 million over the last 10 years and, if I were smart about my > money, I'd be able to live better than most without having to lift a > finger again the rest of my life. The company that paid me, however, > is not only out the $10 million they paid me, but all of the > associated costs of providing me a lab, a workspace, and materials > that likely cost at least 10x what I was paid over the same period. > > Therefore I, as the worker, had no risk. I come to work every day, do > some work, and get paid. The company fronting the money, workspace, > etc., took a huge risk and capital investment; without that risk and > investment, the cure would have likely never been found. The reward > that they get is the offset of the risk that they took. Nothing is > ever guaranteed to succeed. > > On Thu, Apr 25, 2024, at 12:51 PM, greg zegan wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> Do you ever wonder if you are really getting rewarded for all the >> "value" you are providing for that "stake holder"? >> >> If you look at the builders of a bridge for instance that was built >> 100 years ago when the wages were far below the >> >> wage of today you can see that the stakeholders are now benefiting >> from the labor of workers 100 years ago. >> >> That project is still providing revenue that the builders may be >> entitled to if you think about the long term value added. >> >> thanks, >> >> Greg >> >> On Thursday, April 25, 2024 at 12:20:20 PM MST, Ryan Petris >> wrote: >> >> As a software developer of 15 years, I personally would not want a >> union, at least not one in a traditional sense. Additionally, I've >> never been in a union so maybe my understanding is wrong or >> outdated, however my reasoning for not wanting one are: >> >> * I want my salary/benefits to be based on what I personally can >> bring to the table. >> >> * Similarly to #1, if I and/or my team perform better than the rest >> of the company, I want us to be recognized for that _and_ >> compensated appropriately. >> >> * I don't want to start at the bottom of the totem pole at a new >> company because I'm the new guy. >> >> * I don't want to work with people that should have been let go due >> to their performance but are effectively being protected by the >> union. >> >> * I don't want to be forced to strike because the union is playing >> political games that I don't care about. >> >> There's a time and place for unions; when you're in the top 10% of >> national salaries, you're not in a position to need one. >> >> All that said, I work remotely, for a company that's not based in >> Arizona, and therefore am paid relatively well compared to the local >> Market. >> >> On Thu, Apr 25, 2024, at 11:53 AM, greg zegan via PLUG-discuss >> wrote: >> >> would it be time to unionize or change the way business is done in >> AZ? >> >> On Thursday, April 25, 2024 at 11:50:10 AM MST, trent shipley >> wrote: >> >> No. As a rule software engineers/programmers/developers/computer >> scientists all see themselves as professionals who are above >> unionizing and seldom or never do. I think we're seeing the effect >> of Arizona being a provincial, 3rd world location for headquarters >> and software development options. >> >> It's similar to "we make the chips. We aren't friken good enough to >> DESIGN the chips. They do that in NICE places." >> >> On Thu, Apr 25, 2024 at 9:35 AM greg zegan >> wrote: >> >> Wow! >> >> thanks. >> >> sure look like they are taking advantage of the Right to work state >> workers. >> >> On Thursday, April 25, 2024 at 09:08:07 AM MST, trent shipley via >> PLUG-discuss wrote: >> >> https://www.onetonline.org/link/localwages/15-1251.00?st=AZ >> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> >> PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> >> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> >> PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> >> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --------------------------------------------------- PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss