Hi David, On 2025-05-10 12:52, David Schwartz via PLUG-discuss wrote: > AFAIK, if you have Win 10 installed, there has always been a way to go > in and have it upgrade your machine to Win 11 once it was released at > no cost. > > I think that started after they had so much trouble getting people to > move off of Win7. > > The problem is that Win 11 requires something in the hardware that > tells Win 11 it can run. I’ve got two machines running Win 10 that > refuse to upgrade to Win 11. Paying for it won’t help. > > You CAN buy an upgrade if you want. I’m sure they’ll happily take your > money. > > As far as vulnerabilities go, how often do you update your Linux > machines? Very Often for my desktop. Maybe every 10 says. On my test server it is probably every month. For my production VPS not often enough. > > Most routers have been running Linux forever. They reportedly have > several vulnerabiliites but nobody really think of “appliances” as > something that needs to be updated. > > I read where some Govt agency like the FTC just busted a huge ring of > scammers who were running large botnets that work via routers. > > Statistically speaking, Windows accounts for around 90% of all active > computers in the world. Why would scammers waste their time on the > others? That’s why MS is constantly issues security updates. > > I get notices from Apple, but they’re just “updates”. Sometimes there’s > a note about it being something related to security, but usually it’s > some weird thing like if you’re running two obscure apps that have not > been updated in 10 years then you’re at risk. > > When I’ve done work for companies, they provide me with a laptop that > has always run Windows, and they set it up to auto-update and warn us > that if we fiddle with it we’ll be fired. It’s their property and > that’s fine with me. > > Personally, I don’t worry about it. I rarely use Windows, and when I do > it’s inside of a VM hosted by MacOS. If it gets infected, I’ll just > delete it and restore a backup. So far that hasn’t been necessary. > > All of the machines have a firewall active and I only run email on one > machine. I’ve gotten some infections via js crap coming in from a web > page, but if you close the tab or browser before they trick you into > unlocking the door to get into your system, you’re safe. > > The biggest vulnerabilities I see come via email… like anything that > has my name or email in the FROM field, and I get them daily. > > A lot of them are also disguised as “critical security updates”. I > ignore them. I see a lot of these types of notices for Windows, but > very few for MacOS. How many do you guys typically get for Linux on a > weekly basis? Any? Since I move to Kubuntu for my daily driver I get two type of scams.... 1) the email that has my email for the sender, and 2) I've been receiving a FireFox Popup. - Keithj > > -David Schwartz > > > > >> On May 9, 2025, at 1:14 PM, Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss >> wrote: >> >> Thank you David for this long response!! >> >> You said "which is why they switched to free updates" at the very >> bottom of your post. Are you saying M$ provides free upgrades? >> >> Your reply seems to point out the same issue that is approaching for >> Win10 - no support. >> >> Why are you not concerned about stopping updates - doesn't that make >> your configuration vulnerable? >> >> I did maybe 7 annual Payment Card Industry (PCI) certification on a >> shopping cart and every year there were more vulnerabilities to >> address. Seems M$ and Apple would have the same issue. Am I wrong? >> >> - Keith >> >> >> >> >> On 2025-05-09 12:31, David Schwartz via PLUG-discuss wrote: >>> Probably because there does not seem to be many Apple fans here. >>> Apples policies have not changed in over a decade. They update their >>> OS every year, and generally speaking they don’t push out breaking >>> changes that aren’t tied to new hardware. >>> The original 2014 platforms supported both 32-bit and 64-bit >>> software, but one of the OS updates removed support for 32-bits. I >>> will not upgrade to that OS so as to not lose access to several >>> 32-bit apps — they cost a lot to update. >>> The next major change was adding support for Apples M-series CPUs. >>> The OS overlapped Intel and Mx for a couple of releases, then they >>> dropped Intel, so that’s as far as you can go with OS updates. >>> Their official policy is they only support the last three releases. >>> But I continue to get update notices for my 2014 systems, although I >>> Just ignore them. >>> The bigger problem, however, is when there are some hardware changes. >>> To generate apps for their platforms, you need to run XCode, and it >>> gets up dates regularly. It’s always updated for new OS releases as >>> well. You cannot publish new software with older versions of XCode. >>> That means at some point when a vendor issues an update of an app you >>> have, it won’t run on an older OS version. I think that’s where their >>> “3 last OS releases” comes in, because XCode seems to enforce it. >>> So if you don’t want to lose your apps, you just stop installing >>> updates especially if they want you to upgrade the OS. >>> It’s worse on things that run iOS. >>> If you know, you know, and stop installing updates. If you don’t, you >>> lose access to some stuff or you’re told you can’t update any >>> further. >>> MS makes a lot of noise for their major transitions, which happen >>> every 5 years or so. They got jammed-up when so many people refused >>> to pay to upgrade Windows which is why they switched to free updates >>> — so they can force people to update their OS. Apple does the same >>> thing, but they don’t make a big deal about it. >>> -David Schwartz >>>> On May 9, 2025, at 7:16 AM, Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss >>>> wrote: >>>> Eric and everyone, >>>> Win10 EOL is being taken as a big deal because it will no longer be >>>> supported, unless one buys extended support. >>>> There is lots of talk about old Apple hardware however I am not >>>> hearing about any concern for lack of support. Why is that? >>>> - Keith >>>> On 2025-05-08 13:41, Eric Oyen via PLUG-discuss wrote: >>>>> David, >>>>> You’re not the only one! My Mac mini is circa 2012 and it still >>>>> functions well with its original OS, however, things are starting >>>>> to >>>>> come to the point where I’m going to have to install LINUX on it. >>>>> There’s some things I can’t do with it anymore. (some webpages >>>>> won’t load properly which means they won’t load inside the screen >>>>> reader either. However, I’m looking at the open core project, which >>>>> will probably give me some options as far as updating is concerned. >>>>> And yes, because I’m on an exceedingly limited income (disability), >>>>> I am like you in that I cannot afford new equipment every time >>>>> somebody forces us through the upgrade cycle. >>>>> Anyway, that’s probably the beauty about Apple hardware is that it >>>>> lasts a long time. >>>>> Eric >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> On May 8, 2025, at 12:01 PM, David Schwartz via PLUG-discuss >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> I truly appreciate your concern and encouragement to spend money >>>>>> needlessly. I typically keep my hardware until it dies. If you >>>>>> prefer to replace yours on a schedule even if it’s still working, >>>>>> that’s up to you. So far, my Mac hardware has lasted far longer >>>>>> than anything running Windows. I doubt it’s the OS. >>>>>> (My first iMac died not long after the Apple Care expired — a chip >>>>>> on the video card failed and they wanted nearly $700 to replace >>>>>> it. >>>>>> That didn’t seem like a wise investment, so I pulled out the RAM >>>>>> and HD, and sold the carcass for nearly $400. I could have gotten >>>>>> more than that by parting out the case, PS, LCD display, and logic >>>>>> board separately, but that would have taken longer.) >>>>>> However, I also know that Windows attracts more than an order of >>>>>> magnitude more attempts to hack the system versus all other >>>>>> platforms combined, so I CHOOSE to avoid it in large part for that >>>>>> reason alone. I also prefer *nix to Windows as it’s far more >>>>>> stable. >>>>>> Value is measured over time. My experience with Apple’s hardware >>>>>> is that it lasts far longer than anything I’ve had that runs >>>>>> Windows. And it does not depreciate nearly as quickly. I’m quite >>>>>> happy with the value I’ve gotten for my money. >>>>>> -David Schwartz >>>>>> On May 7, 2025, at 10:02 AM, Matthew Gibson via PLUG-discuss >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> My wife's macbook died. Multiple times. Several were hard drive >>>>>> failures. We replaced, with Apple-nazi sanctioned hardware. The >>>>>> final death was when the graphics card stopped working. Could get >>>>>> a >>>>>> framebuffer on it. But anything more intensive? nope. Thing said >>>>>> 'Newp!' So I said 'good-riddance'. >>>>>> You can like whatever hardware you want. As for me and my house? I >>>>>> don't run Apple crap. >>>>>> Too much headache. Too much engineered obsolescence. Too much >>>>>> money >>>>>> for what it's worth. >>>>>> Even with the "better hardware" rationale for fanboys paying out >>>>>> every time a new phone comes out which only improves slightly on a >>>>>> camera, or better, adds a feature that android has had for years. >>>>>> I wouldn't want to do any serious work on your old macs that are >>>>>> ancient. Have you done any vulnerability scans on them? "Might >>>>>> want >>>>>> to look into that" ~Tony Stark, as he bonks the head of the bad >>>>>> guy >>>>>> in Iron Man I. >>>>>> Anyways, I'm not going to change your mind, and this conversation >>>>>> grows ancient. Like your macs. >>>>>> T.T.F.N. >>>>>> On Tue, May 6, 2025 at 6:03 PM David Schwartz via PLUG-discuss >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> On May 4, 2025, at 7:36 PM, Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> I did not know there was a bias on the list. >>>>>>> - Keith >>>>>> It’s when people mention “the Apple tax” that the bias shows >>>>>> up. >>>>>> At least my older Macs don’t turn into door-stops when Apple stops >>>>>> supporting them. Two of them cannot be upgraded to the latest >>>>>> versions of MacOS, but they are fully functional. >>>>>> From all of the warnings I’m reading about Windows 10, I’m >>>>>> really not sure what to expect. I have two computers that I can’t >>>>>> upgrade to Win 11. >>>>>> -David Schwartz >>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>> --------------------------------------------------- >>> PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --------------------------------------------------- PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss