I too do not believe certifications are worth much. With the exception of a selling point to customers who don't know better or to help lower your insurance premiums. That said they CAN be a good path to focus your learning and gain knowledge however that knowledge is not usually worth more then a few months of intensive on the job training. On a side note I am mojor pet peve, in that I hate companies that requier certain certifications for emplyment... If I were to colect ever cert I have seen "requierd" for job I was otherwise well qualified for I would have to spend about two years and about $100K to obtain them. At which point I could get a few years of use and then have to repeat the process ;) If you want your people to have a prticuler cert you higher the person and make continued employment contengent on getting the cert. On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 6:49 AM, Lisa Kachold wrote: > > > On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 10:33 PM, Steve Phariss wrote: > >> Question to the group. >> >> I know that certificates in and of themselves are not a good indicator of >> skill. But are they a worthwhile goal for knowlege sake? In particular, I >> have been faced with a couple jobs that required Vertualization skills. I >> have very little enterprise experience with vertulization so was concidering >> taking a bootcamp course that concludes with a vertulization cert (Certified >> Virtualization Expert™ -CVE™) >> >> Does anyone have any experience with the CVE or Bootcamp classes in >> general? >> >> >> Steve >> > In the old days, we had what were considered "academics". These were the > people who could stand around and spout a million useless details about > technology, but in the actual trenches, had no if/then/therefore logical > skills. They were like autistics, in that they could memorize rote, but it > often seemed as if the people who actually could excel at the times when > someone had to pull raw intelligence and creativity out of a hat, they > failed horribly. > > The people who actually had to work in the fields often found the > certifications to be far from what was required to actually master a subject > - epic fail for those selling technology or selling management that > certifications were actually a good gauge of mastery. > > So, what started to happen was people who actually were deeply immersed in > technology started to attend bootcamps which were given often during a > convention, where a full immersal of the student into the subject matter's > pure "academics" would occur, whereupon all the useless facts that are never > used when implementing and maintaining the technology get retained just long > enough to pass the certification. In this way, everyone could give a Class > A subnet answer (even in the days when everyone only used Class C > subnetting) for instance for a Cisco CCNA (which I obtained in 1999). > > I certified in IBM High Speed Networking Technology in the 1980's at > USBank, and it was a complete exercise in rote memorization. I certified > on Websphere V in 2006, and nothing had really changed; little on the test > actually translated to being able to manage application servers in any real > world shop. > > I doubt very much this has changed with regard to Virtualization quizzes - > except that Linux certifications are generally excellent (especially the > RHCE - which is a complete PRACTICAL test, no reference materials are > allowed, and the student must master the subject on a virtual slice or real > machine during the test). A RHCE is sold to businesses as a way to get a > cheaper rate on their RHEL licenses. I was hired in a contract gig to build > new application servers (8 Prod/Dev + 1 database all Dell 1950's 2850's) and > clean up Apache security and little Linux issues while they sent their > Microsoft staff to RHCE Fast Track school (Choicehotels.com): > > > http://www.supershareware.com/info/whizlabs-rhce--red-hat-linux-certification--exam-simulator.html > > http://www.scribd.com/doc/16314048/RHCE-Red-Hat-Certified-Engineer-Linux-100-Success-Secrets-on-RHCE-Linux-Test-Preparation-Study-Guides-Practice-Exams-Braindumps-Certification-Exa > > https://www.redhat.com/certification/rhce/?s_kwcid=TC|3636|rhce||S|p|3282576651 > www.linuxlearningcentre.com/content/prep*guide*.pdf > > The RHCE fast track (5 day type of bootcamp) is the best way to certify as > well because Linux people generally don't require a 3 month class, and > simply get in and do things quickly to grasp a course: > https://www.redhat.com/courses/rh300_rhce_rapid_track_course_and_rhce_exam/ > > Certifications have been critisized for being "marketing manipulation" > rather than actual gauges of skill. For instance, a company will sell > certifications when a product is big, and require certifications for cheaper > rates. > > But if you don't already have a good history with certifications and your > goal is simply to get a grasp of the technology, a certification is suspect, > as a solution. > > Currently virtualization providers are fighting it out over a "new hot > market". And the technology is relatively young (unless you are IBM). So, > Microsoft, XEN and Vmware --- you get the idea from the "Products of the > Year 2008": > > > *GOLD AWARD:* VMware ESXi 3.5 U2 > VMware's free ESXi leads the virtualization platform market by continuing > to offer the greatest functionality and highest value of all hypervisors > available on today's market. > READ MORE > > *SILVER AWARD:* Microsoft Hyper-V 1.0 > "Microsoft's standalone Hyper-V is a great option for a free hypervisor," > one judge wrote. "I give Microsoft a lot of credit for such a strong new > showing." > READ MORE > > *BRONZE AWARD:* Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5.2 > If Linux is your bag, then the Xen-based virtualization bundled with Red > Hat's enterprise offering is a high-performance virtualization option and > excellent value, judges reported. > READ MORE > > I would get a general linux certification before I would get a > virtualization certification. > > And since you are asking, I would point you to the RHCE. > > (503)754-4452 wiki.obnosis.com > scientology.obnosis.com > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >