The city of Surprise has moved into a new city hall complex, and are turning the old offices / building into a "start-up" or incubator for new or emerging businesses. lyle tuttle At 07:50 PM 8/1/2009, you wrote: >On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 6:50 PM, keith smith wrote: > > > > > > I think what is really missing from this equation is mentoring > and training. > > what I would like to see is some real support from AZ government to >help make tech companies feel welcome here. This means: > > 1) making the valley a good place not only to build a company but to >build a *career*. this means buy in from both sides of the equation. >I would like to see a bit more address at lower capital levels, but >that may prove to be difficult. It seems that most existing concepts >are kind of stuck in the industrial model, where you build a factory >in a place with low taxes and hire low wage workers, but technology >requires high wage workers who demand a good thriving job market. The >needs are quite different. The biggest issue with starting a company >out here is finding people. Where are all the people? in CA. >because it has a good job market. If we can outsource to India, we >sure as hell can outsource to Arizona. > > 2) setting up low cost legal structure and as you say mentoring to >really help stimulate technology development. We've seen (at least >nominal) efforts in the past. Why did they fail? This means real and >adequate assistance in bringing concepts to production and market. A >small investment in this area will yield returns in tax base and >property value by a factor of hundreds. Arizona has the potential to >pick up a lot of this commercial activity because California is >currently set to become a tax strapped nightmare state to build your >business. If AZ fails to see the opportunity here, we will lose out >big time. Currently the budget proceedings are still in gridlock. > > the mayor of Phoenix seems to have the right idea, he was suggesting >recently a green technology center near Phx center. I think thats the >direction AZ needs to go. -jmz > > > > > I like the idea that folks are getting together to network. This > is a really cool idea. Even for non-technical stuff like finding > out how people deal with customers, contracting, book-keeping, ETC. > > > > ------------------------ > > Keith Smith > > > > > > --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Joshua Zeidner wrote: > > > >> From: Joshua Zeidner > >> Subject: Re: Geek/Tech/Entrepreneur Stuff to do in PHX > >> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" > >> Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 6:08 PM > >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 11:09 PM, > >> Alan Dayley > >> wrote: > >> > Joshua, > >> > > >> > I put all your replies together in one long document > >> and reread them. > >> > I am still confused a bit. Enlightenment via email > >> rarely occurs. > >> > However, I really want to understand your position in > >> this discussion. > >> > Let me summarize what I understand from your > >> replies. > >> > > >> > ---[Start my paraphasing of your comments]--- > >> > > >> > - There is a small group or groups of people who keep > >> spinning off > >> > communities using tired marketing techniques. This > >> results in blogs > >> > but not true communities. > >> > > >> > - Some of these people cannot deal with existing > >> structure and the > >> > efforts of the past. > >> > > >> > - These weak attempts do not articulate goals or > >> purpose well, if at all. > >> > > >> > - We must honestly look at criticism to learn and > >> improve. > >> > > >> > - These weak people need to address the efforts of the > >> past and > >> > provide suggestions on how they can be improved upon. > >> > > >> > - Getting political support will provide legitimacy to > >> their efforts. > >> > > >> > - Phoenix will attract technology businesses because > >> of the relative > >> > low cost and this will help improve things. > >> > > >> > - You have first hand experiences of weak, marketing > >> fronted, > >> > community building efforts. > >> > > >> > - Many 'entrepreneurs' have grand ideas but get > >> nowhere with them > >> > because they are not real businesses. > >> > > >> > - People at a co-working location or coffee shop will > >> not help you > >> > with your business unless you pay them. > >> > > >> > - Most people at co-working started their one person > >> business after > >> > being laid-off and are not serious about it. They > >> are really just > >> > looking for the next full time gig. This will get in > >> your way if you > >> > have real business work to do. > >> > > >> > - We must look truthfully at this issue if we are to > >> make progress. > >> > > >> > - There are no serious incubators and entrepreneurial > >> meetups in > >> > Phoenix. No announcements on VC funding of companies > >> so it's not > >> > really entrepreneurial growth. > >> > > >> > ---[End my paraphrasing of your comments]--- > >> > > >> > I see validity in every one of these comments. I > >> also think many of > >> > them can be balanced by the other point of view. I > >> still have > >> > questions, if I may ask, before I state too much of my > >> own thinking. > >> > I want to learn more about your thinking. > >> > > >> > 1. What does "deal with existing structure" mean? > >> This confuses me, > >> > not know what structure you are talking about. > >> > >> Many user groups have been formed and continue to > >> exist... how is > >> different? other than its led by > >> person Y? I mean dealing > >> with some of these groups I feel like Im back to age 8 > >> trying to gain > >> admittance into the neighborhood treehouse. Perhaps I > >> should spend > >> more time drinking beer with these people? Seeing the > >> same small > >> group churning out 'communities' is at first funny, then > >> annoying. I > >> just see a real lack of serious intent, and unless that is > >> noted > >> publicly, it makes all of us look bad. I really dont > >> think Im being > >> destructive or malicious here, Im pointing out some valid > >> observations. > >> > >> > > >> > 2. To what efforts of the past are you referring? I > >> want to > >> > understand the size and nature of efforts to creating > >> a community that > >> > you feel were legitimate but perhaps did not work as > >> planned. > >> > >> I remember when I first came to AZ that there was an > >> tech > >> incubator... what happened to it? Which > >> political agents currently > >> support technology development in the valley? what do > >> they think > >> about your org? these things are pretty basic... > >> > >> > > >> > 3. What political support is needed? You mean > >> government funding of > >> > events or startups or just verbal support or what? > >> > >> I wouldn't expect funding, but it would be good to > >> see some > >> political buy in. Lack of just supports my opinions, > >> that its really > >> as Lisa said, camouflage for poor organization. > >> Without any good > >> signposts, all this will produce are people who get jaded > >> and > >> disaffected with regards to this location. If you had > >> something > >> together I doubt that a good politician would turn you > >> down. > >> > >> > > >> > 4. Why is it wrong or a problem for someone who is > >> laid-off to have > >> > grand ideas, talk about them and they never come to > >> be? > >> > >> Its not. As I said, I don't find any of these > >> things highly > >> offensive- but like you I am free to express myself. > >> Sorry if its not > >> filled with abundant exaltations. > >> > >> > > >> > 5. Is it not conceivable that people might help each > >> other in business > >> > efforts? Isn't strengthening and creating such a > >> culture a good idea > >> > or should such a goal not be pursued because it is not > >> practically > >> > possible? > >> > >> sure. good thread btw. -jmz > >> > >> > > >> > Alan > >> > > >> > > >> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:20 PM, Joshua Zeidner > >> wrote: > >> >> another great one: > >> >> > >> >> "OK, my question stands. Where are the incubators, > >> the "bootstrap" > >> >> seminars, the serious entrepreneurial meetups in > >> Phoenix??? (crickets > >> >> chirping). Phoenix just ain't happening as a > >> serious place where > >> >> serious people are doing serious things. No one > >> wants it badly enough > >> >> here. This paper should be having at least one > >> article a week on a new > >> >> startup and the VC firm who funded it. > >> Helloooo????? is anybody out > >> >> there...." > >> >> > >> >> a better way to phrase this: we need to stop > >> pretending these > >> >> whimsical efforts churned out by local > >> self-employed marketing experts > >> >> are sufficient. They are not. We should be > >> asking the hard > >> >> questions, not playing games. > >> >> > >> >> -jmz > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:04 PM, Joshua > >> Zeidner > >> wrote: > >> >>> another point, honestly reading through some > >> of the criticisms on > >> >>> azcentral and being of the cafe dwelling creed > >> myself, I'd have to say > >> >>> that many of those points are accurate. I've > >> heard lots of > >> >>> 'entrepreneurs' with big ideas around here who > >> never get anywhere with > >> >>> them. Sorry, but a word press template > >> doesn't make you an > >> >>> entrepreneur. > >> >>> > >> >>> "These are the same people you see at > >> Starbucks, Boarders or any > >> >>> other wi-fi hot spot, they are not > >> entrepreneurs they are attention > >> >>> (inappropriate term)." > >> >>> > >> >>> "Many of the Co-Worker location founders > >> tout other people to > >> >>> collaborate with and who can "compensate for > >> your deficiencies". Do > >> >>> you really believe someone that you are not > >> paying as an employee is > >> >>> going to somehow compensate for your > >> deficiencies and make your > >> >>> business better? That kind of help doesn't > >> come without a price." > >> >>> > >> >>> oh so true... > >> >>> > >> >>> "You are more likely to get a bunch of > >> people chatting to you over > >> >>> your "work" so you wont be concentrating as > >> you should to focus on > >> >>> your business. Most of these people started > >> businesses after being > >> >>> laid off. They are searching for a new job and > >> they aren't really > >> >>> serious about their "businesses" so how do you > >> expect them to give you > >> >>> valuable, serious advice. Are these the kind > >> of people you need to > >> >>> compensate for your deficiencies? A bunch of > >> people half-as running > >> >>> their "business" while searching for a real > >> job and bothering you with > >> >>> their expertise that got them laid off in the > >> first place." > >> >>> > >> >>> oh so so true... > >> >>> > >> >>> I would be willing to bet the commenter > >> above is an tried and true > >> >>> successful entrepreneur. Perhaps the reason > >> I am so skeptical is > >> >>> because I know these kind of people so well. > >> >>> > >> >>> sorry I really wish I could be more > >> supportive... but : truth is > >> >>> the foundation of progress. > >> >>> > >> >>> -jmz > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 3:28 PM, Joshua > >> Zeidner > >> wrote: > >> >>>> Alan, > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Wish I had time to respond to all > >> these points right now, not sure > >> >>>> you read me the way I would prefer > >> however. Its not so grave a > >> >>>> warning, just getting the word out on my > >> first hand experiences. Im > >> >>>> just one of many- but hopefully an > >> impartial observer and someone > >> >>>> genuinely concerned for AZ. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> all the best, jmz > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 3:12 PM, Alan > >> Dayley > >> wrote: > >> >>>>> Josh, > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> I feel warned. And I don't > >> understand the reason for such a strong warning. > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> There are people in every industry, > >> government or community who wish > >> >>>>> to fleece their "community" for their > >> own profit instead of mutual > >> >>>>> benefit. The trick is to find the > >> positive people and ignore the > >> >>>>> rest. Apply the same filter with > >> every event, group or blogger in the > >> >>>>> lists and links I provided. I don't > >> expect bloggers or techies to be > >> >>>>> any different, as if being techie > >> makes one a saint. > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> Some of those bloggers are purely > >> commercial or completely neglected, > >> >>>>> I'm sure. Some of the groups or > >> events or sites listed are lousy, > >> >>>>> boring or poor marketing excuses to > >> sell something. Some are not out > >> >>>>> to create community but to build a > >> "kingdom" for their own benefit. > >> >>>>> They are the duds. > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> Let's look at a few positives: > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> - Read the Gangplank Manifesto on > >> their home page at > >> >>>>> http://gangplankhq.com. That looks like > >> a great articulation of their > >> >>>>> goals and purpose. Ones I strongly > >> support! > >> >>>>> -- Read how the manifesto came to be > >> on Derek's blog at > >> >>>>> > http://derekneighbors.com/2009/07/collaborative-writing-or-how-the-gangplank-manifesto-was-written/ > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> - Gangplank has hosted or is hosting: > >> >>>>> -- MobiFest - a day long conference on > >> developing for phones like > >> >>>>> iPhone or Android > >> >>>>> -- Gangplank Jr. - a 2-3 hour Saturday > >> event for kids 5-15 to learn > >> >>>>> programming concepts > >> >>>>> -- Wordpress training classes for > >> minimal cost or no-cost for non-profit orgs > >> >>>>> -- Laid Off Camp - a day long > >> conference on job searching and entreprenuership > >> >>>>> -- Barcamp Pheonix - a day long > >> conference on software development > >> >>>>> -- TEDx night - Watch ted.com videos > >> and discuss them > >> >>>>> -- OpenPhoenix - a night of open mic > >> music and entertainment > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> - The last http://desertcodecamp.com/ was held on June 13th and > >> nearly > >> >>>>> filled DeVry's Phoenix campus with > >> developers talking about code or > >> >>>>> making code. Free lunch of pizza and > >> sub sandwiches was provided too. > >> >>>>> Put together by volunteers. > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> - If you're into Microsoft based > >> development tech, the people who > >> >>>>> maintain the http://azgroups.com site do an annual all-day event at > >> >>>>> venues like the Orphium Theater and at > >> no cost to attendees. Fine, > >> >>>>> it's marketing for MS but it's put on > >> by volunteers here in the valley > >> >>>>> and a great way for people to learn > >> about things that improve their > >> >>>>> career skills. > >> >>>>> > (http://www.componentart.com/BLOGS/milos/archive/2009/06/02/scott-guthrie-event-2009-phoenix-az.aspx) > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> - The local Ruby On Rails group has > >> monthly meetings with around 30 > >> >>>>> regularly in attendance. > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> - The Java group is also well attended > >> every month. > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> - The third http://podcampaz.com/ is coming up in November, put on > >> by > >> >>>>> voluteers at no cost (donation > >> requested) to attendees. Had about 350 > >> >>>>> people attend last year (if I recall) > >> for two days of conference. > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> - The http://azentrepreneurship.com/ conference will be in > >> November > >> >>>>> for the forth year. This one costs > >> $100+ but should be as well > >> >>>>> attended as last year with 200+ > >> people. Funded and organized in part > >> >>>>> by a local venture capital group. > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> - The first http://ignitephoenix.com event was held a year ago with > >> a > >> >>>>> little over 100 in attendance and has > >> grown to fill the 600 seat > >> >>>>> Theather at Tempe Center for the Arts > >> back in June. The connections > >> >>>>> made there live well past the event. > >> >>>>> -- Oh, a city council member and the > >> mayor of Tempe spoke this last > >> >>>>> time, though he was a bit silly trying > >> to be Tempe exclusive. That > >> >>>>> seems to be at least verbal political > >> support. > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> - The second ABLEConf on FS/OSS is > >> being planned for October and > >> >>>>> should be better than last year. (Go > >> Hans and team!) > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> I'm not going to go on, though I could > >> point out several purely social > >> >>>>> events like http://phoenixfridaynights.com/, it's east and west > >> valley > >> >>>>> analogs, East Valley Thursday Morning > >> breakfasts, Tempe Geeks Lunch, > >> >>>>> South Valley Geek Meet and Eat and > >> Gangplank's Brown Gag lunch > >> >>>>> presentations every Wednesday. > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> Now, having said all of that "giddy > >> blind optimism," I'd like to > >> >>>>> understand how the above does not > >> address the efforts of the past or > >> >>>>> provide improvement over past efforts. > >> What are the real needs of the > >> >>>>> community, if not some of the above? > >> What would you suggest? How can > >> >>>>> PLUG be a part of it? > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> Alan > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 1:34 PM, > >> Joshua Zeidner > >> wrote: > >> >>>>>> Alan, > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> while I appreciate your post, > >> and anyone who is making a sincere > >> >>>>>> effort to build community in > >> Phoenix... be warned. There are some > >> >>>>>> small groups who periodically > >> spawn off new 'communities' every month > >> >>>>>> or so. Look closely and you see > >> the same few people with reused > >> >>>>>> marketing recipes. Lots of blog > >> and not too much community I'm > >> >>>>>> afraid. Their efforts amount to > >> some simple branding and putting up a > >> >>>>>> blog. While these things are not > >> really particularily offensive to > >> >>>>>> me, they do somewhat detract from > >> interest in the real needs of the > >> >>>>>> community here. Some of these > >> people are just outright idiotic and > >> >>>>>> cannot deal with existing > >> structure and refuse to accept the history > >> >>>>>> of efforts in the past. They > >> lack any articulation of their goals and > >> >>>>>> purpose. Often times they have > >> trouble organizing even small groups > >> >>>>>> of 2 or 3. Dont forget we've had > >> a tech incubator here. Lets not > >> >>>>>> smack down sincere criticism in > >> favor of giddy blind optimism, > >> >>>>>> remember you can't improve without > >> criticism. I would take these > >> >>>>>> people much more seriously if they > >> addressed the efforts of the past > >> >>>>>> and perhaps suggested how they are > >> going to improve on them, or > >> >>>>>> perhaps indicate what has changed > >> that will make them a success. > >> >>>>>> Maybe seeking real political > >> support would gain some legitimacy. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> on the positive side, I think > >> Phoenix will attract a lot of > >> >>>>>> technology business due to its > >> relative low cost and no doubt you will > >> >>>>>> start to see community > >> infrastructure grow. We are seeing some real > >> >>>>>> urban development happening in Phx > >> metro which has me very excited. I > >> >>>>>> think when the macroeconomic > >> problems are sorted out we will see > >> >>>>>> downtown Phx bloom. Im hoping > >> that the average Arizonan gets involved > >> >>>>>> in the political process and make > >> sure that the corruption stays out > >> >>>>>> of city and state politics. > >> Coming from NY, Im recognizing a lot of > >> >>>>>> positive development trends in Phx > >> metro. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> -jmz > >> >>>>> > >> --------------------------------------------------- > >> >>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > >> >>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to > >> change your mail settings: > >> >>>>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > >> >>>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>> > >> >> > >> --------------------------------------------------- > >> >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail > >> settings: > >> >> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > >> >> > >> > --------------------------------------------------- > >> > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > >> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail > >> settings: > >> > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > >> > > >> --------------------------------------------------- > >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail > >> settings: > >> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > >> > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > >--------------------------------------------------- >PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us >To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss