okey-dokey. I'll work with ruby then. Now I need to know of the best free training guide for ruby. I know of Learn RUBY the Hard Way but does anyone know of anything better or more in-depth? :-)~MIKE~(-: On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 2:36 PM, Mark Phillips wrote: > My two cents.... > > Learn what interests you. > > Find a project that you like, and start working on it. It can be personal, > or opensource. > > Learning is life long. > > Just start scratching those itches! > > ;-) > > Mark > On Aug 26, 2013 2:10 PM, "Paul Mooring" wrote: > >> I don't care for python at all and actively avoid it. >> Syntactically is a bad idea that should go away and the "there's only one >> way to do it" attitude is completely wrong. >> >> Bash vs. are good at >> teaching different things. Bash is mandatory for sys-admins but generally >> doesn't teach great scripting/programming practices as semantically it >> works quite different. Any other more robust language (perl, python and >> ruby being the big 3) will do a much better job of teaching you "how to >> code" by introducing proper usage of things like functions, objects >> (hopefully) and data structures. In my opinion you would be well served by >> either one depending on what you're hoping to gain from it (bash for >> leveling up your sys-admin or python for building a dev baseline). >> >> >> Paul Mooring >> Operations Engineer >> www.opscode.com >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* plug-discuss-bounces@lists.phxlinux.org < >> plug-discuss-bounces@lists.phxlinux.org> on behalf of Michael Havens < >> bmike1@gmail.com> >> *Sent:* Monday, August 26, 2013 1:58 PM >> *To:* Main PLUG discussion list >> *Subject:* Re: what to learn >> >> Thank you so much for your answers. Okay... here is what I think I'll >> do; scripting and linux from scratch first. While programs are compiling >> with LFS I'll work on python. I have a python book, it is Python, How to >> Program but it is old (2002). I also have a book entitled "Linux Shell >> Scripting with BASH". What do you recommend? I think I should do scripting >> with BASH because, while it too is old (2004), BASH has always been the >> same and therefore the age of the book is irrelevant (I think). >> >> :-)~MIKE~(-: >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 8:34 AM, George Toft wrote: >> >>> To add to what Paul said . . . >>> >>> What interests you? I know many sysadmins that don't develop code; many >>> developers that can't spell Linux (OK, they can, but they also think 777 >>> permissions fix everything, even access to data files). I've even met SA's >>> that couldn't script, but that limits their usefulness and shows a lack of >>> motivation and curiosity - both highly desirable traits in the workplace. >>> IMHO, learn scripting not just to learn it, learn it to make your work more >>> efficient. If you can document some manual task, you can automate it. >>> Then you can then run that automation on all the servers in your care and >>> have time left over, which makes you efficient. In a previous job, I had >>> over twice the number of servers as anyone else on my team, and four times >>> the company average because I documented and semi-automated the server >>> build finishing process, and I automated the daily health check. So all my >>> servers were consistent (almost identical) and I was done with my daily >>> routine by 10am. This gave me time to help others, project work, find ways >>> to improve processes, collateral duties and irritate management. >>> >>> And then there's security . . . I got a phone call one day asking to >>> speak to the head of IT Security. I work at a large organization and >>> quickly counted up 11 different security organizations - which one would >>> you like to talk to? Click. LOL. We have network, application, >>> infrastructure security organizations, and their operations, engineering >>> and architectural groups. And don't forget audit, compliance, and CISO. >>> Most people think network operations when they think of security, but there >>> is so much more to it. Looking at the 10 Domains of the CISSP (Certified >>> Information System Security Professional) certification shows there is a >>> lot to "IT Security." >>> >>> So whereas I hate to see security last in your list (most companies put >>> security last on their list, too), the reality is you need to have a solid >>> foundation doing *something* before you go down that road. Understanding >>> the fundamentals and history will help, like . . . why is there a shadow >>> file? . . . what is the directory sticky bit used for? . . . why isn't the >>> classic File Security Packet suitable for some common security situations? >>> Why did the NSA develop SELinux, then absolutely fail at deploying THEIR >>> OWN CREATION and allow Edward Snowden* inappropriate access to classified >>> materials (hidden question is what does SELinux provide that would have >>> prevented this situation; and the bonus question is prove my implied >>> assertion false)? If I were to point to one thing in security to pique >>> your curiosity, I would suggest looking up the FBI Top Ten for Unix >>> Security and understand how to find and fix those problems. As you can >>> tell by my questions, I'm not a developer, even though I was (a long time >>> ago in a galaxy far, far away), and that's a whole different world, too. >>> If coding interests you, pursue certification in secure code development - >>> that will help you in many ways. >>> >>> * I hope you ratbastards at the NSA read this email and understand how >>> you utterly failed in the most incompetent way. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> George Toft >>> >>> On 8/23/2013 1:11 PM, Paul Mooring wrote: >>> >>> I think there's a bit of a misconception for how the industry works >>> that leads to questions like this. Web design is really more of it's own >>> thing centered around graphic design and css, although programs *have* to >>> know html these days. Outside that it sounds like you are getting ahead of >>> yourself in terms of specialization, everyone doing non-entry level IT work >>> needs to know a bit of programming (you can call it scripting if you like) >>> and any non-entry level programmer needs to know a bit the systems they >>> right code for (sys-admin 101). >>> >>> If what you're worried about is building up the knowledge needed for a >>> career, in my opinion the right approach is "what don't I know?" If you >>> have never written any code before don't worry about learning web >>> development, go learn some basic scripting simple perl/ruby/python scripts >>> and the basics of writing code in general. If you're comfortable with that >>> but you don't know how your OS works, go set up a linux server or compile a >>> kernel or whatever else interests you. If you already know all that dive >>> into something deeper, pick up a new programming language or run through >>> linux from scratch. >>> >>> One more thought, I'm of the opinion you can't "learn security" >>> Securing a system is really more of a by-product of intrinsically >>> understanding that system and how it can be exploited. That implies that >>> if you aren't already very competent writing code and understanding system >>> internals you can't be a useful security person until you are. >>> >>> >>> Paul Mooring >>> Operations Engineer >>> www.opscode.com >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* plug-discuss-bounces@lists.phxlinux.org >>> on behalf of Michael Havens >>> >>> *Sent:* Friday, August 23, 2013 11:31 AM >>> *To:* PLUG >>> *Subject:* what to learn >>> >>> you know, I've asked the question about what to learn multiple times. >>> I think I've been asking the wrong question. The new incarnation of my >>> question is what do you think I should learn. Programming is one option and >>> web design is another. Is there another option i'm not thinking of? I >>> guess security is a third. Any others? Things to consider when answering >>> that question would be what is needed? What is the potential? What isn't >>> being addressed.... things like that. >>> >>> I have more questions but I guess we should get that question out of >>> the way first. >>> :-)~MIKE~(-: >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------- >>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>> >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------- >>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >