Why must we flame? Where is the love? The community?

Joshua Zeidner wrote:
>
>
> On 8/29/07, *Alan Dayley* <alandd@consultpros.com
> <mailto: alandd@consultpros.com>> wrote:
>
>     Joshua Zeidner wrote:
>      >
>      >
>      > On 8/29/07, *keith smith* < klsmith2020@yahoo.com
>     <mailto:klsmith2020@yahoo.com>
>      > <mailto:klsmith2020@yahoo.com <mailto: klsmith2020@yahoo.com> >>
>     wrote:
>      >
>      >
>      >     Add PLUG reserves the right to suspend or remove any account
>     not in
>      >     compliance.
>      >
>      >
>      >
>      >   And for my reference, WHO is PLUG?
>
>     Straight to the point.  WE are PLUG.
>
>     There is a Steering Committee with a chair person but, they direct the
>     group in a "benevolent dictator" style, sort of...  The committee does
>     makes sure stuff happens but has no real force of control.  There
>     are no
>     by-laws or hard rules for the committee to lean on or point at.  PLUG
>     members follow or don't or grumble or yell as they see fit.
>
>     So, your point is taken.  If anyone is reserving the right to ban
>     someone, who has that right and what are the criteria?  I don't know
>     the
>     answer to that question.
>
>
>
>   Honestly, I've been through this with one group already here in
> Phoenix.  Usually if something happens someone doesn't like, they evoke
> the hidden and mysterious powers of moderation.  Behind this somewhat
> ridiculous fig-leaf is some callow sheepish dude who has the password to
> the listserv.  Very funny stuff in my view.
>
>   I can say this: without clear leadership, there will be no clear
> purpose.  If the person who recently offered up his grandfatherly
> opinion of the whole thing feels he is in the position of leadership
> here, he should make that abundantly clear.  Not because I am
> challenging that leadership, I would just like to know who is running
> the show if anyone.
>
>   I am in touch with Jason and I want to make it clear that it was not
> my intention to smear him.  I do not make any claims against his
> character.  He has made job postings on here after our work engagement
> and I made no attempt to interfere with that.  I asked for a simple
> thing, and my intention here was to help clear up some confusion.  I
> will make a sincere attempt to reconcile our disputes.
>
>   In a general, I have recently moved out of Phoenix, primarily because
> I found the work environment here quite lacking.  I could tell you quite
> a number of stories of my experiences around here[1], but there is a
> sufficient trail of listserv activity to point to some of my
> experiences.  I think that Phoenix is currently facing some serious
> challenges as a city... and there are going to be inevitable changes
> whether they are welcomed by old-timers or not.  I am quite sure that
> recent activity in financial markets has hit a number of people on this
> list directly.
>
>   To address Joseph S.'s comments, for a list or a business venue to
> function correctly, you have to support buyers AND sellers, employers
> AND employees.  I know that a number of regular contributors are of the
> hobbyist temperament, and see these kinds of points to be irrelevant and
> annoying.  Banning feedback on job ads may seem like a great way to
> attract employers, because they feel safer in making whatever claims
> they please.  The problem is, that the actual value of the ads degrade,
> and developers start to take a somewhat non-committal attitude towards
> working with these parties[3].  What phoenix currently needs is some
> kind of reputable venue for IT contracting, and I've voiced these
> concerns before[2].  Silicon Valley (where I currently reside) is
> literally bulging at the seams with out-of-control cost scales and
> somewhat of a vacuum of lucrative ideas.  There are people here who make
> $300K a year designing applications to scrape your address book from
> your gmail account.  Phoenix /does/ have potential in that sense, but it
> lacks the legal and commercial infrastructure to support the kind of
> commercial activity found in Silicon Valley.  This infrastructure was
> built by folks not unlike yourselves, who just have a basic fascination
> with technology and its possibilities and decided make the government
> work for them instead of against them.
>
>    Alan, I appreciate your attitude here- I think you are looking out
> for whats best for all the participants here.  thanks.  jmz
>
>
>
>
> [1] there is one person on this list that I responded to a job ad, and
> his 'CTO' refused to give me his last name!  this person later was
> recommended by someone else on this list!
>
> [2] there are key deficiencies in AZ law as compared to that of CA law.
> some of the more important aspects are employment law and NCAs.
>
> [3] 'no flakes' is perhaps the most common request in web development
> job postings.
>
>
>
>
>     Better yet, I don't want to need to know the answer to that question.
>
>     In the history of PLUG that I know, no one has ever been banned.  Ever.
>     I'd much rather continue as it has all these years.  Self policing
>     works and this group is very good at it.
>
>     I, for one, would not want the power to ban anyone.
>
>     Alan
>
>
>
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>
>
>
> --
> .0000. communication.
> .0001. development.
> .0010. strategy.
> .0100. appeal.
>
> JOSHUA M. ZEIDNER
> IT Consultant
>
> ( 602 ) 490 8006
> jjzeidner@gmail.com <mailto:jjzeidner@gmail.com>
>
>
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