For what it is worth I have great respect for Josef Lowder.  He has been the voice of reason in my life several times and in getting to know Josef, I know he only intends good. ------------------------ Keith Smith --- On Tue, 8/31/10, Brian Cluff <brian@snaptek.com> wrote: From: Brian Cluff <brian@snaptek.com> Subject: Re: OT: Plug Digest, Vol 62, Issue 31 - the unfixable problem. To: "Main PLUG discussion list" <plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us> Date: Tuesday, August 31, 2010, 11:15 AM This thread needs to end.  It's so far off topic that it has nothing whatsoever to do with Linux/FOSS.  It's devolved into religion and politics and can go nowhere good from here. If you would like to continue to discuss it, please take it off the list, but I suggest you just drop it entirely though.  We have a couple of very strong opinions on the same subject and I can tell that neither side it going to win in this debate and you'll just end up hating each other, and I think that everyone can agree that we need a lot less hate in this world. Brian Cluff