:-)~MIKE~(-:

On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 5:12 AM, Jon Kettenhofen <subs@kexsof.com> wrote:

Sure, a bad power supply will not only affect the fans but it can affect everything in the computer!

What do you think? The power supply failed because it got too hot because the cooling fan did not do it's job? Maybe. But you won't be able to diagnose the fan or other failures until you determine the status of the power supply. Considering that you have seen multiple symptoms, it could point to either the power supply or the motherboard. The easiest way I can think of to diagnose the power supply is to trade power supplies with a duplicate quad system quad and see if the symptoms move to the duplicate quad system. If not, then the motherboard becomes suspect.

I'm saying duplicate quad because quads draw the most power and the failure should be obvious on the duplicate. Otherwise if the symptoms did not show up on either system, then the diagnosis would be in doubt because it could be a power supply cable or connector and the exchange fixed the problem, possibly only temporarily (time will tell).

On the other hand, if you just buy a duplicate (make sure it's for a quad) power supply and exchange the supplies, you won't be sure that the old power supply was bad or that you just fixed a cable problem - assuming you haven't ruled out the cable/connector at fault.

I've seen power supplies on ebay for about $100 in the past but make sure the dealer is reputable whatever you pay - if you go that way.

There's a fellow in Florida who repairs motherboards for PC's for $169 but I don't know if he does Mac motherboards and you have to pay postage to ship the board to him. (Pack it well and insure it!)

If you replace the power supply and still have the symptoms, then can you return the extra power supply?

Anyway, if you can boot and run, try the Apple hardware diagnostics if you have the DVD. Or if you have a copy of Tech Tool (Pro) try to boot that. It takes a while to boot because it does so with it's own system without violating Apple's copyrights, etc. I know Tech Tool Pro is stand alone and tests all the hardware because I use it. Since my Mac G5 is down, I don't know if it tests the power supply, but it should.

Jon

On 09/18/2014 09:35 PM, Michael Havens wrote:

so the power supply will affect the cooling fan? If so this might be an
easy fix. What about the internet switch? That was the first thing that
failed.

:-)~MIKE~(-:

On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 5:24 PM, Jon Kettenhofen <subs@kexsof.com
<mailto:subs@kexsof.com>> wrote:

Michael,
BTW, Apple publishes a hardware diagnostic CD or DVD, in fact it may
be on the original install DVDs that came with the machine. If you
can boot the machine, see if you can run the diagnostics.
Jon

On 09/18/2014 02:08 PM, Michael Havens wrote:

Thefirst thing I di was to stick the live cd in. That didn't fix
a thing
plus that doesn't take care of the cooling fan issue..... did I
tell you
I get that notice right before bios takes over?

:-)~MIKE~(-:

On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Stephen Partington
<cryptworks@gmail.com <mailto:cryptworks@gmail.com>
<mailto:cryptworks@gmail.com <mailto:cryptworks@gmail.com>>> wrote:

Have you tried a live CD of any flavor to see if it persists?

On Sep 18, 2014 8:35 AM, "Michael Havens" <bmike1@gmail.com
<mailto:bmike1@gmail.com>
<mailto:bmike1@gmail.com <mailto:bmike1@gmail.com>>> wrote:

when the keybosrd problem stsrted about 6 months ago
getting
another keyboard was the first thing I did and there was no
problem with it when I attached an external keyboard. You
mentioned smoking being a problem? I've never done
that. You
wondered about the distro? I run Linux Mint.

:-)~MIKE~(-:

On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 6:08 AM, Lisa Kachold
<foobar@it-clowns.com <mailto:foobar@it-clowns.com>
<mailto:foobar@it-clowns.com <mailto:foobar@it-clowns.com>>> wrote:

Hi Mike,

In order to work with the technician effectively,
you are
going to want to be closely involved with the work
process.
In this respect, you will ask him what he thinks
the problem
is, or what his first actions are, for instance if he
recommends a full diagnostic.

But first, I would do some diagnostics myself
before taking
your equipment to the technician.

IT IS A GOOD POSSIBILITY THAT THIS IS DUE TO MORE
THAN ONE
CAUSE (but all related to your distro or drivers)!

If you are SMOKING or exposing the laptop to soot
of any
kind, you will want to clean the laptop completely
FIRST.

Everyone has issues with the WIRELESS switch on older
equipment, just futz with it, as I have never seen
anyone
have it STAY BROKEN? But this clearly would be the
technician stage....

Various diagnostic programs exist for linux, which
you might
consider before spending money on the technician,
to verify
power supply, bus, and CPU.

Intel Proc Diagnostic for Linux:
https://downloadcenter.intel.__com/Detail_Desc.aspx?DwnldID=__19792
<https://downloadcenter.intel.com/Detail_Desc.aspx?DwnldID=19792>
PowerTop:
http://xmodulo.com/2013/06/__how-to-monitor-power-usage-in-__linux.html
<http://xmodulo.com/2013/06/how-to-monitor-power-usage-in-linux.html>

What distro are you running? Known issues with KDE and
Chrome with keyboard I/O are common (which I expect
is the
cause of your issues after applying a patch):

http://forums.linuxmint.com/__viewtopic.php?f=18&t=53398&p=__306336&hilit=keyboard+stops+__working#p306336
<http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=53398&p=306336&hilit=keyboard+stops+working#p306336>

Spares are your friend, so try an external keyboard
and see
if the issue follows that hardware (kernel driver)
switch,
then you can be sure that it is application/distro
based
rather than hardware based.
As for fan control, there are various tools and
again KNOWN
ISSUES (ArchLinux) with fancontrol under linux:
http://askubuntu.com/__questions/63588/how-do-i-get-__fan-control-working
<http://askubuntu.com/questions/63588/how-do-i-get-fan-control-working>
Karmic:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/__ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/__451337
<https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/451337>

You can use a live distro to rule out your keyboard
issues -
divide and conquer.

Using OSI Level debugging, you go to the layer
where the
issue exists and traverse up and down to adjacent
layers, so
clearly there is only the human level on the other
side of
the Physical Layer 1, which is where the problems
present
themselves, so the other direction would be the
drivers in
linux.

You would rule out issues here with a systematic
diagnostic,
use of spares and intelligent research.

On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 8:54 PM, Michael Havens
<bmike1@gmail.com <mailto:bmike1@gmail.com>
<mailto:bmike1@gmail.com <mailto:bmike1@gmail.com>>> wrote:

What can I tell the service tech so I don't
sound too
stupid?

:-)~MIKE~(-:

On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 8:03 PM, Michael Havens
<bmike1@gmail.com <mailto:bmike1@gmail.com>
<mailto:bmike1@gmail.com <mailto:bmike1@gmail.com>>> wrote:

oh.... I forgot to say that none of the other
computers in my house seem to have been
affected
though it may be that it needs to be
power-cycled
and/or it may be something that only affects
wireless and something got on the phone
lines (my
home is on DSL).

:-)~MIKE~(-:

On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 7:50 PM, Michael Havens
<bmike1@gmail.com <mailto:bmike1@gmail.com>
<mailto:bmike1@gmail.com <mailto:bmike1@gmail.com>>> wrote:

Thank you so much for the detailed
explanation,
Jon. You know.... I have a laptop and I
don't
have a MAC but I read your troubleshooting
non-the-less. I got to the last
paragraph and
realized something that I was told
happened a
couple of days ago that might be
relevant. My
room mate was home when this happened
so this is
second-hand knowledge. She was watching
tv when
the power went out then, a second
later, there
was a big POP down the street (a
transformer
maybe?). Everything still worked with the
computer though; however, maybe it just
needed
to be power-cycled.

Any other comments will be greatly
appreciated!

:-)~MIKE~(-:

On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 6:56 PM, Jon
Kettenhofen
<subs@kexsof.com
<mailto:subs@kexsof.com> <mailto:subs@kexsof.com

<mailto:subs@kexsof.com>>> wrote:

Hello Michael,

I'm curious, did you buy this quad
new or
did you buy it used or is it a work
computer
owned by a company? I get the
feeling that
you bought it used.

There's almost always a reason for
failures
and it's usually a problem that can be
isolated. If it's a part, it can be
replaced. If it's something else,
it can be
fixed.

When stuff like this starts to
happen, it
may be one of three things: a loose
connection or a bad motherboard or
a power
supply. Apple builds solid
hardware but
sometimes it gets abuse or just
used in a
poor environment with too much heat
and/or
moisture or just takes a physical
beating -
they are rather heavy. Also quads, I
believe, have water cooling. I
have seen at
least one report of leaks. That's
usually
easy to rule out if there's no leaks.

So where to begin? Well, the
pedant is back!

You may want to take some anti-static
electricity precautions. First,
disconnect
the Mac completely from all
exterior cords,
wires, etc. Lay it on its side
where there
is plenty of light, a clean worktop
area and
a Phillips screwdriver. As you
have seen,
it's easily taken apart, at least
the easy
pieces need only your hands. Pull
the fans
out, take the video and other cards
out,
unhinge and pull the memory sticks
out and
so on until you are puzzled how to
get the
cooling shrouds out. (Don't do that.)
Inspect everything. Look for any
corrosion. Remove as much dirt and
dust as
you can with an air duster can
(take care
here, the these cans may contain
hydrocarbons that are flammable and
they
should not be inhaled!). If you
use an air
compressor, be gentle and use lower
pressure
less than 40psi. What you can't
get out
with air, start with a clean microfiber
cloth and wipe without generating
static
(i.e. don't rub hard). Make sure
all the
connectors are clean and shiny before
reassembling.

We call this clean and re-seat the
boards.

Make sure you put the same memory
sticks
back into the same slots - it usually
matters or makes a difference. If
you don't
remember, read up on it from a manual,
usually online at Apple.com.

Memory sticks are tricky because
they often
won't reseat properly without strong
pressure. First, make sure the
middle slot
on the memory stick is lined up
with the
ridge in the bottom of the
connector. The
slots are offset from the middle on
purpose,
they are only supposed to go in one
way.
(Having burned out a memory stick
by forcing
it in backwards, I can speak from
experience! Won't do that again!)
The way to
handle this is to use two hands,
with thumbs
or your choice of fingers at each
end of the
board. Making sure the stick is aligned
correctly in the connector; push
FIRMLY down
until both ends of the connector
snap into
the stick. Main logic boards are
epoxy and
embedded fiber, are very strong and
can take
a little flexing without
hurting them. Same with memory sticks.

Make sure the memory is seated well
- it may
take close inspection with a
flashlight. If
the sticks are all the same size,
then no
stick should be higher than the
lowest one.

OK, reassemble the computer.

Testing the power supply can be
difficult.
It's easier with a common desktop
PC because
the power connector is almost
always on top
of the board and easily
accessible. It's
not enough to test a power supply
out of the
computer because it won't be under
load.

Here's how an expert taught me to
test the
power supply on a desktop PC (but not a
Dell!) Take a meter and set it to DC
volts. There will be a pair of
test leads
with pointed ends to poke at things.

You will push the points into the
connector
until it connects to the metal of the
connector sleeve. Connect the
common lead
to a black wire's connector. Test
all the
colored wires with the positive
(usually
red) meter probe. Here are the correct
voltages for a PC:

Yellow +12 Volts
Red +5 Volts
Purple +5 Volts
Orange +3.3Volts
Green don't test; this
turns on
the PC when shorted to black
White -5 Volts
Blue -12 Volts
Gray I think this one is for the
power-is-on LED
Brown Not sure about this one

The important thing is that the
voltages are
nearly correct when the computer is
powered
on because that shows the power
supply to be
good when under a load.

One other thing - sometimes a part can
acquire a static charge which won't
dissipate properly. The only
remedy for
this is to wait until it discharges
(unless
you are a motherboard repair person).

Things that have hurt my equipment is
usually near lightning strikes.
Lost one
treasured Mac to a lightning strike
that hit
the phone lines. Took out phones
for three
stories above me. Mac did not fail
right
away but eventually lost it (sniff
:( ).
Lightning strikes across the
strike have
taken out a couple ethernet ports
over the
years even though my equipment has
always
been on a UPS. Strong strike will
generate
an EMP which is sometimes picked up
by a
network wire of a resonant length.
Usually,
though, it's not serious but if the
storm is
bad, we'll turn off the electronics
until
it's past.

I apologize for the length of this,
but you
get the idea of the lengths I go to
fix things.

Best of Luck and let me know how it
turns
out if you have the time,
As always, take care.
Jon

On 09/17/2014 06:27 PM, Michael
Havens wrote:

first certain keys sometimes
don't work
unless I hold the key down and
then after a time the character
will
appear (sometimes multiple times).
So it was recomended I pop the
keys off
and clean under them. So I do
and it doesn't fix the problem. No
problem. I'll stick it under my
table
and attach wireless periphiels
too it.
Then I need to go visit my kids.
So I figure I'll suffer with the
keyboard problem. The day I
left for
Miami (at the airport) the hardware
internet switch would not turn on.
Then, after I arrive in Miami,
I turn on
the computer and a notice
appears at boot saying that
'the cooling
fan is not operating properly'.
What problem do you think is
causing
this? I called my dad and he said
it sounds like the hard disk is
going
bad. He also said maybe the
keyboard controller (because of the
internet switch).
:-)~MIKE~(-:

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